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To: Quix; betty boop; Cronos; roamer_1
Thank you for sharing your concerns and insights, dear brother in Christ, and thank you for your encouragements!

roamer_1 quoting a Fatima prophecy: "To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart."

If I could change anything about the Catholic Church it would be to remove the need for footnotes. Which is to say, make it as plainly spoken as possible.

For instance, when the term "Mother of God" is used it doesn't really mean what it says on plain reading, i.e. that Mary is the mother of the One and Only Triune God. Rather it means that Mary is the mother in the incarnation of the Word of God, Jesus.

And in the case of the above excerpt, I doubt it actually means what it says on plain reading either. If it did, it would be saying that in order for people to be saved, God wants them to devote themselves to Mary's "Immaculate Heart." And that reading would be contrary to the words of God on a number of points, including these (emphasis mine):

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. - Matthew 4:10

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. - Acts 4:8-12

And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. - Revelation 22:8-9

The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord. - Matthew 10:24

I strongly suspect what the prophecy really means, if I had read the footnotes, is that God wants people on earth to be devoted to Him like Mary is devoted to Him so that they can be saved.

Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. – Matthew 22:35-40

And again,

And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. - Luke 1:46-47

Perhaps one of the Catholics here will advise me whether my understanding of that excerpt of the prophecy is close or closer to what was meant.

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

560 posted on 03/17/2010 10:43:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

I appreciate your wisdom and charity.

However, in terms of devotion to Mary’s Immaculate Heart . . . I must differ.

There are far too many examples of that sort of exhortation in a plethera of the literature of the Vatican organization and it’s subunits.

I have NEVER read the qualification you kindly insert.

I have no doubt that some will rush to affirm such a qualification to make the above palatable.

However, the stark truth is, such an exhortation is propagated and published far and wide and has been so for a very long time—and that unqualified—unsoftened, unconformed to Biblical priorities.

To be fair, I don’t believe that the exhortation is trying to say that folks will not be saved if they are not devoted to Mary’s Immaculate Heart—at least not in the Fatima incident—though I’d have to reread it all to be confident of that.

And, to be still fair, there are a list of exhortations in the TEN MEDITATIONS . . . ON THE ROSARY which DO SAY EXACTLY THAT—that only through Mary is Salvation to be obtained. There are different wordings but the meaning is quite plainly that.

I find the exhortation to be devoted to the Immaculate heart of Mary a horrific extra Biblical diversion from putting God first and foremost first, middle, last and always.

There’s no hint of such in all of Scripture. None.

Yet, relentlessly there’s an abundance of such exhortations in a long list of Roman Catholic et al literature—without qualification either totally or in large part.

One would think that in such a massive amount of publishing that the “true meaning” you are so ready to kindly insert for them—would have been along side such exhortations at least every other time the exhortation was published. Or even 25% of the time. Or even 10% of the time. Not so.

The exhortation reigns in all it’s starkness on page after page in document after document. The faithful are deluded into thinking this is a kosher and fitting if not obligatory Christian thing to do.

What a deception from the pit! What a seductive, warm fuzzy FEELING deception.

Now, children, let us focus more intently on Mommy’s Immaculate Heart.

Let the adorations commence . . . . Ohhhhmmmmmmmmm. Mommy’s Immaculate Heart . . . . warm fuzzys abounding like sugar plums and whiskers on kittens, brown paper packages tied up with string and a spoon full of sugar to help the heresy go down!

God have mercy.


563 posted on 03/17/2010 11:04:03 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Quix; betty boop; Cronos; roamer_1
Thank you Alamo-girl. I'll try to answer from what I know (which isn't much, but here goes):

1. "For instance, when the term "Mother of God" is used it doesn't really mean what it says on plain reading, i.e. that Mary is the mother of the One and Only Triune God. Rather it means that Mary is the mother in the incarnation of the Word of God, Jesus." --> True, that is orthodox belief. Mary is NOT the mother of God the Father or God the Holy Spirit, but she IS the mother of Jesus who is God and who is part of the Godhead.
2. About what the prophecy of Fatima was -- I don't know. I don't follow Fatima and it's truth or not doesn't affect my faith one little bit. Private revelations do not form part of the deposit of faith of the Catholic Church and its members are not bound to believe in any of them
3. I do read that Mary says that she is giving a warning from God and that she will ASK God various requests.
4. I don't really know what the Fatima apparations are to mean and I don't take them affecting my Catholic Faith.
572 posted on 03/18/2010 3:19:34 AM PDT by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Alamo-Girl

“I strongly suspect what the prophecy really means, if I had read the footnotes, is that God wants people on earth to be devoted to Him like Mary is devoted to Him so that they can be saved.”
You are correct.Also for our Non-Catholics the word is Respect.This is the vision before She said these words.
“Taken from Sr. Lucia’s Third Memoir (August 31, 1941) with the final sentence taken from her Fourth Memoir (December 8, 1941).

Well, the secret is made up of three distinct parts, two of which I am now going to reveal.

The first part is the vision of hell.

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.”
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:1n6Tcy7-pKoJ:www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010fea1sb.asp+fatima+vision+of+hell&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a


632 posted on 03/19/2010 9:36:08 AM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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