Is Priestly Celibacy Psychologically Dangerous? (Catholic Caucus)

zna ^ | March 9, 2010 | Carmen Elena Villa

[NYer]

This is a Catholic Caucus thread. Thank you for respecting it.

[NYer]

RELATED: Married Priests Will Always Be an Exception

[pnh102]

Clearly this very question is a direct attack on the celibacy rules for clergy in the Catholic Church. Why can’t people accept that rules are rules, and if you want to be a married priest, there are other ways to go about doing it (even within the Catholic Church!) without whining about the rules imposed by the Catholic Church.

[NYer]

This is a Catholic Caucus thread. Are you a Catholic?

[SumProVita]

That’s almost like asking if self-discipline is psychologically dangerous.

;-))

[a fool in paradise]

It's the sex positive agenda (which sees sexual pleasure as a birthright to be enjoyed by everyone at every age with no moral judgements regardless of the pairing) that drives this discussion. The proponents are decidedly anti-abstinence, not because it doesn't work (regardless of what they claim) but because they find it to be psychologically counter to their own hedonistic worldview.

This agenda is pushed globally by government institutions, schools, and radical feminists and socialists. And it is damaging to psychological wellbeing and society's stability.

Good to see someone picking up the counter argument.

[Salvation]

Catholic Caucus thread. Please see the title

[stuartcr]

OK

[matginzac]

Couldn’t agree more - it’s ALL about self-sacrifice, devotion to others, serving God through selflessness, etc - but OHHHH, in this pro-secular, “how can you give up SEX !?!” society, it’s implausible that ANYONE would deny themselves sexual pleasure...just doesn’t compute...myopic dopes!

[namvolunteer]

I’m a Catholic who tries to obey all the rules. I think priests should too. I just don’t think there are that many celibate heterosexual men who can do the priestly job we want done.
I’d like to see that rule changed. I think other Christian religions have handled married clergy well. I wouldn’t want to see female priests if it meant they would be bringing modern Feminism into their sermons and remainder of their mission.

[tiki]

I don’t think other Christian religions have necesarily handled married ministers well.

They divorce and remarry about as much as the regular population and that often tears up a congregation because they get too invested in the drama.

They seem to have much higher rates of pedophilia and queer behavior. Many of them cheat on their wives.

I’ll just give you my personal experience and I won’t bring up any of the other Protestant minister scandals that happened in this time span in my small town.

The first minister I remember was old (to me anyway). He was a wonderful married man and if they had children, they were grown. He obviously had a firm vocation and his wife was a dear.

The next one was married and had a teenage son who was horrible, he was always sexually harrassing girls and boys and it was all swept under the rug. He ended up marrying a divorced woman with 3 kids and sexually abused them all. The minister seemed to think of what he did as “just a job” and his wife was barely visible, I don’t even remember what she looked like.

The next was a man very gifted with words. He had studied the early fathers and was full of history and information but he had lost his faith in God and pushed secular humanism, once again the wife was completely in the background.

The next was a young couple, the wife wanted to be a diva. She sang soloes in the choir and they made you cry...not because of the beauty. She ran away with the choir director and left the minister with their 2 children.

That was pretty much where I got off and I can’t tell you much more except that the Methodist hierarchy started moving the ministers around faster because you can hide all that stuff better.

[namvolunteer]

Human failings, once again. We have an imperfect world because we are imperfect beings.
When I was a young adult, I worked in San Francisco for a short time and I commented about all the Southern accents among the flamboyant people and was told, “(A certain Christian religion) sends all their sons of a certain persuasion to San Francisco while the Catholics put theirs in the seminary.”
I think if priests were mostly hetero oriented there would be less tolerance within their ranks for the others.
I don’t have all the answers but I think we can answer the problem of not enough priests and the other problem of too many with short eyes by opening the ranks.

[NYer]

I’d like to see that rule changed. I think other Christian religions have handled married clergy well.

Like you, I too am a Catholic - a Latin Rite (Roman) Catholic, but I practice my faith in a Maronite (Eastern Rite) Catholic Church. The Maronite Church has a Patriarch who also happens to be a Cardinal. Like most of the Eastern Catholic Church, the Maronite Church has married priests. In fact, my pastor's great grandfather was a married priest and served as the inspiration for his vocation. The only difference is that my pastor also chose the celibate life. He also chose to be bi-ritual (Maronite and Latin Rite). He was born in Lebanon and has his major degree in the ancient languages (Latin, Hebrew, Koine Greek and Aramaic). He is fluent in 8 languages and has traveled to South America and Europe.

My reason for giving you some background here is to demonstrate that he has experienced both ends of the spectrum. In 2005, the Holy Father convened a General Synod of Fathers at the Vatican. As often happens, the topic of priestly celibacy arose. It was the Patriarch of the Maronite Church who addresed the issue.

Mar Nasrallah Peter Cardinal Sfeir

Vatican City, Oct. 07, 2005 (CNA) - The Cardinal defended the practice of the celibate priesthood and discussed the beauty of the tradition, calling it the "most precious jewel in the treasury of the Catholic Church."

While pointing out that "the Maronite Church admits married priests" and that "half of our diocesan priests are married", the Cardinal Patriarch said that "it must be recognized that if admitting married men resolves one problem, it creates others just as serious."

"A married priest", he said, "has the duty to look after his wife and family, ensuring his children receive a good education and overseeing their entry into society. ... Another difficulty facing a married priest arises if he does not enjoy a good relationship with his parishioners; his bishop cannot transfer him because of the difficulty of transferring his whole family.

He noted that "married priests have perpetuated the faith among people whose difficult lives they shared, and without them this faith would no longer exist."

"On the other hand," he said, "celibacy is the most precious jewel in the treasury of the Catholic Church,"

Lamenting a culture which is all but outright opposed to purity, the Cardinal asked: "How can [celibacy] be conserved in an atmosphere laden with eroticism? Newspapers, Internet, billboards, shows, everything appears shameless and constantly offends the virtue of chastity."

Suggesting that there are no easy solutions to the problem of priest shortages in the Church--an oft brought up point during the Synod--he noted that, "Of course a priest, once ordained, can no longer get married. Sending priests to countries where they are lacking, taking them from a country that has many, is not the ideal solution if one bears in mind the question of tradition, customs and mentality. The problem remains."

The Patriarch's observations have been borne out by several former protestant ministers who converted to the Catholic Church and were accepted into the Catholic priesthood.

I wouldn’t want to see female priests if it meant they would be bringing modern Feminism into their sermons and remainder of their mission.

There will never be women priests in the Catholic Church. Jesus did not ordain any women. He selected all of his apostles, and none were women. No one, not even the pope, has the authority to change Christ's design of the priesthood. You can read more here.

[namvolunteer]

Great post, as was Tiki’s.
I think my position is similar to some of the priests at the Synod, open to consideration of change and eager to hear others’ input.
Thank you both.

[Leoni]

I don’t believe there are many practicing (as in really living the faith) Catholics who want married clergy. I think this idea of married clergy comes from fallen away Catholics, liberal Catholics, and cafeteria Catholics.

Good thing the Church is not a democracy.

[Leoni]

re: I think this idea of married clergy comes from fallen away Catholics, liberal Catholics, and cafeteria Catholics.

And of course non-Catholics!

[A.A. Cunningham]

I don’t have all the answers but I think we can answer the problem of not enough priests and the other problem of too many with short eyes by opening the ranks.

A specious argument at best. If ordaining married men in the Latin Rite was the panacea that you claim it would be then there would no shortage of Priests or vocations in any of the 21 other Churches; that ordain as a norm married men, that, along with the Latin Rite, comprise the Catholic Church. That isn't the case. The Greek Orthodox Church, which also ordains married men, is also experiencing a shortage of Priests and vocations.

[SuziQ]

I have known many priests in many different parishes in my lifetime. I can say that there have been only two about which I might have had any questions about their psychological makeup. I didn't get any 'wierd vibes' about the desire to abuse children or anything like that, they were just kind of eccentric. Most of the priests who were abusers of young men were described as gregarious, and the kids enjoyed being around him. These priests I knew weren't like that, they were the opposite, in that they tended to be more quiet and reserved.

The vast majority of priests I've known have been very down to earth men, and didn't seem to have any psychological problems. My brother-in-law is a priest, so I know about many of his priest friends, as well, and believe me they are ALL watchful for any wierdness on the part of their 'brothers'.