EWTN - NO PRICE TOO HIGH - Pentecostal minister Alex Jones story

EWTN ^ | March 3, 2010

[NYer]

NO PRICE TOO HIGH  (1 hr)
The profound conversion story of a Protestant minister who brought his congregation with him into the Catholic Church. The viewer will discover the sacrificial yet triumphant journey of a man of deep integrity and love for Christ.
Wed 3/3/10 10:00 PM ET / 7 PM PT
Sat 3/6/10 5:00 AM ET / 2 AM PT

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Pastor and Flock Convert to Catholicism

JUDY ROBERTS

When Pentecostal minister Alex Jones came into the Church this past Easter he was not alone. He brought much of his congregation in with him.

When Pentecostal minister Alex Jones came into the Church this past Easter he was not alone. He brought much of his congregation in with him.

When Detroit-born Alex Jones became a Pentecostal minister in 1972, there was little question among those who knew him that he was answering God's call to preach.

Now, many of his friends and family have dismissed the 59-year-old pastor as an apostate for embracing the Catholic faith, closing the nondenominational church he organized in 1982, and taking part of his congregation with him.

At this year's April 14 Easter Vigil, Jones, his wife, Donna, and 62 other former members of Detroit's Maranatha Church, was received into the Catholic Church at St. Suzanne's Parish. For Jones, becoming a Catholic will mark the end of a journey that began with the planting of a seed by Catholic apologist and Register columnist Karl Keating. It also will mean the beginning of a new way of life.

Jones first heard Keating, the founder of Catholic Answers, at a debate on whether the origins of the Christian church were Protestant or Catholic. At the close, Keating asked, "If something took place, who would you want to believe, those who saw it or those who came thousands of years later and told what happened?"

"Good point," Jones thought, and tucked it away. Five years later, while he was reading about the church fathers, Keating's question resurfaced. Jones began a study of the Church's beginnings, sharing his newfound knowledge with his congregation.

To illustrate what he was talking about, in the spring of 1998 he re-enacted an early worship service, never intending to alter his congregation's worship style. "But once I discovered the foundational truths and saw that Christianity was not the same as I was preaching, some fine-tuning needed to take place."

Soon, Maranatha Church's Sunday service was looking more like a Catholic Mass with Pentecostal overtones. "We said all the prayers with all the rubrics of the Church, all the readings, the Eucharistic prayers. We did it all, and we did it with an African-American style."

Not everyone liked the change, however, and the 200-member congregation began to dwindle. Meanwhile, Jones contacted Detroit's Sacred Heart Seminary and was referred to Steve Ray of Milan, Mich., whose conversion story is told in Crossing the Tiber.

"I set up a lunch with him right away and we pretty much had lunch every month after that," said Ray. He introduced Jones to Dennis Walters, the catechist at Christ the King Parish in Ann Arbor, Mich. Walters began giving the Pentecostal pastor and his wife weekly instructions in March, 1999.

CROSSROADS

Eventually, Jones and his congregation arrived at a crossroads. On June 4, the remaining adult members of Maranatha Church voted 39-19 to begin the process of becoming Catholic. In September, they began studies at St. Suzanne's.

Maranatha closed for good in December. The congregation voted to give Jones severance pay and sell the building, a former Greek Orthodox church, to the First Tabernacle Church of God in Christ.

Father Dennis Duggan, St. Suzanne's 53-year-old pastor, said the former Maranatha members and their pastor along with about 10 other candidates comprise the 750-member parish's largest-ever convert class.

UNITY AND DIVERSITY

Although not all parishioners at predominantly white St. Suzanne's have received the group warmly, Father Duggan, who also is white, said he considers the newcomers a gift and an answer to prayer.

"What the Lord seems to have brought together in the two of us — Alex and myself — is two individuals who have a similar dream about diversity. Detroit is a particularly segregated kind of community, especially on Sunday morning, and here you've got two baptized believers who really believe we ought to be looking different."

Father Duggan hopes eventually to bring Jones onto the parish staff. Already, he has encouraged Jones to join him in teaching at a Wednesday night Bible service. And, he is working on adapting the music at Masses so that it better reflects the parish's new makeup.

The current European worship style at St. Suzanne's has been the most difficult adjustment for the former Maranatha members, Jones said, because they had been accustomed to using contemporary music with the Catholic prayers and rituals. "The cultural adaptation is far more difficult than the theological adaptation," he said.

PROTESTANT ISSUES

Jones said the four biggest problems Protestants have with Catholicism are teachings about Mary, purgatory, papal authority, and praying to saints. He resolved three of the four long ago, but struggled the most with Mary, finally accepting the teaching on her just because the church taught it.

"It is so ingrained in Protestants that only God inhabits heaven and to pray to anyone else is idolatry. ... The culture had so placed in my heart that only the Trinity received prayer that it was difficult."

He is writing a paper on the appropriateness of venerating Mary for a class at Detroit's Sacred Heart Seminary, where he is taking prerequisite courses for a master's degree in theology and pastoral studies. He also is writing a book for Ignatius Press and accepting speaking engagements through St. Joseph Communications, West Covina, Calif.

Jones, the father of three married sons and grandfather of six, is leaving the question of whether he becomes a priest up to the Church.

"If the Church discerns that vocation, I will accept it. If not, I will accept that, too. Whatever the Church calls me to do, I will do."

Although he has given up his job, prestige, and the congregation he built to become Catholic, Jones said the hardest loss of all has been the family and friends who rejected him because of his decision.

"To see those that have worshiped with and prayed with me for over 40 years walk away and have no contact with them is sad."

It was especially painful, he said, when his mother, who had helped him start Maranatha, left to go to Detroit's Perfecting Church, where his cousin, gospel singer Marvin Winans, is the pastor.

Neither Winans nor the pastor of the church that bought Maranatha's building would comment on Jones' conversion. Jones also is troubled that those he left behind do not understand his decision.

"To them, I have apostasized into error. And that's painful for me because we all want to be looked at as being right and correct, but now you have the stigma of being mentally unbalanced, changeable, being looked at as though you've just walked away from God."

Jones said when his group was considering converting, prayer groups were formed to stop them. "People fasted and prayed that God would stop us from making this terrible mistake. When we did it, it was as though we had died."

He said Catholics do not fully understand how many Protestants see their church. "There's this thin veneer of amicability, and below that there is great hostility."

But he remains convinced he is doing the right thing.

"How can you say no to truth? I knew that I would lose everything and that in those circles I would never be accepted again, but I had no choice," he said.

"It would be mortal sin for me to know what I know and not act on it. If I returned to my former life, I would be dishonest, untrustworthy, a man who saw truth, knew truth, and turned away from it, and I could just not do that."

[srweaver]

You wrote:

You never answered my questions. Who decides whether someone is sufficiently comprehending?

And you never answered mine:

Do you suppose an infant understands their baptism?

However, to answer you, only God knows what a person understands. The church has to function on outward, observable criteria to administer the rite of baptism, as is biblically indicated, to believers ONLY.

Or are you into branding the devil’s cattle?

[srweaver]

So then why are you opting for an unbiblical position by rejecting those who baptise infants? Do you see any Catholics condemning a protestant church for refraining from the practice?

Actually, I don’t condemn the Catholic Church for baptizing infants, I merely see it as an innefectual act.

Many Protestants “dedicate” their children to the Lord, which is a family/community/church commitment to help protect, nurture, and guide the child in a Christian environment so that when they come to an age/development (which God knows) of moral responsibility they will choose Christ. Then they can be baptized according to Scripture.

[Salvation]

**To illustrate what he was talking about, in the spring of 1998 he re-enacted an early worship service, never intending to alter his congregation’s worship style. “But once I discovered the foundational truths and saw that Christianity was not the same as I was preaching, some fine-tuning needed to take place.”

Soon, Maranatha Church’s Sunday service was looking more like a Catholic Mass with Pentecostal overtones. “We said all the prayers with all the rubrics of the Church, all the readings, the Eucharistic prayers. We did it all, and we did it with an African-American style.”**

Wow! What a conversion! Not just of mind but of heart too!

[srweaver]

Most Protestants I know do not feel that God will send uncomprehending, unbaptized children to hell. Nor will He send culpable, capable of comprehending individuals of any age to heaven, baptized or not, if they reject Him, either actively or passively.

Is the Catholic position different? Does your God send unbaptized children to hell if they die?

[Salvation]

**”To them, I have apostasized into error. And that’s painful for me because we all want to be looked at as being right and correct, but now you have the stigma of being mentally unbalanced, changeable, being looked at as though you’ve just walked away from God.” **

I think this happens to a lot of Portestants that convert to Catholicism......it is so sad.

**He said Catholics do not fully understand how many Protestants see their church. “There’s this thin veneer of amicability, and below that there is great hostility.”

But he remains convinced he is doing the right thing.**

And from his heart and mind to a total commitment of action. Wow! I admire this former Protestant!

[Salvation]

This looks like a great book! Thanks so much.

[Salvation]

They keep coming toward the Catholic Church, don't they?

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[TheStickman]

“So why, biblically, is the “blood” of Christ not given to every believer, but only for the priest?....What scriptural support do you have for WITHOLDING life from lay Catholics.”

I receive the Body & Blood of Christ every Mass. Sometimes in the form of bread. Sometimes in the form of bread & wine. So your assertion seems to have little basis in reality.

[srweaver]

Yes,

I’ve been hearing the Catholic Church has changed its practice since I last attended. How refreshing.

If you want to follow the rest of the discussion, go back and read the previous posts.

[Salvation]

**But my marriage is valid even if not performed in a Catholic church by a Catholic priest.**

Not necessarily so. Where and by whom were you married?

[srweaver]

None of your business.

Are you implying my marriage is invalid?

Mark 10:9  What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

[TheStickman]

May the Peace of Our Lord, Jesus Christ be with you always.

[srweaver]

And with you!

[BenKenobi]

“Do you suppose an infant understands their baptism?”

No, I don’t suppose they do.

Do you believe that unbaptised children go to hell?

[BenKenobi]

“Does your God send unbaptized children to hell if they die?”

It’s his decision, and yes I believe that unbaptized children can go to hell.

And he’s not ‘my God’, he’s our God, or are you just playing at being Christian? Or do you believe that Catholics are not truly Christian?

[srweaver]

I’m sorry for you that you believe unbaptized children who have not come to a place of conscious moral accountability will perish eternally.

Your God and mine might be the same in the sense that He is the creator of the universe, but your understanding of Him widely diverges from mine.

I believe that those Catholics who have come to a saving knowledge of Christ through faith are truly Christian, as I believe non-Catholics who have come to a saving knowledge of Christ by faith are truly Christian.

There are many “Catholics” and “Protestants” and “Orthodox” and “others” who are not truly Christian, their baptism and church affiliation(s) notwithstanding, because they are not saved by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8, 9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Unfortunately, many in the Roman Catholic Church are never introduced to the true gospel of Jesus Christ, because much emphasis is placed on the extra-biblical and anti-biblical teachings of the church.

[BenKenobi]

“I’m sorry for you that you believe unbaptized children who have not come to a place of conscious moral accountability will perish eternally.”

I did not say WILL. I said COULD. Please review what I wrote earlier before putting words in my mouth. Salvation is up to God, he decides who will live and who will die. I do not presume to know whom his Mercy will fall upon.

“because they are not saved by grace through faith.”

Salvation through by the Grace of God through Faith in Christ. You must notice that we are only saved by the Grace of God. If He would not spare us, then none would be saved, regardless of what their lips would profess.

“Unfortunately, many in the Roman Catholic Church are never introduced to the true gospel of Jesus Christ, because much emphasis is placed on the extra-biblical and anti-biblical teachings of the church.”

You are aware that the Gospel was written by Catholics? There were no Lutherans back then, dear Sir. We brought the scriptures to you.

[srweaver]

You are aware that the Gospel was written by Catholics?

No, I wasn’t aware of that. I thought the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark (Peter’s gospel), Luke, and John, and the rest of the New Testament by Luke, Paul, James, Peter, John and Jude (along with the unknown author of Hebrews) with many quotes from Jesus and the Old Testament, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (should I assume you think He is Roman Catholic, too).

Your claim is laughable on its face, but you are free to try and keep getting in front of God’s parade and claim it as your (or Rome’s) own.

BTW, I am not a Lutheran, and there were no Roman Catholics when the Bible was written, Old or New Testaments. There was, and is, a catholic (universal) church brought into being through our Lord Jesus, and comprised of all those He has saved, regardless of their “labels.”

[mgist]

Welcome Home, God Bless Them.Come Holy Spirit and Fill the Hearts of Your Faithfull.

[mgist]

"I reject the Roman Catholic Church, particularly its extra-biblical and anti-biblical teachings, and I reject the pope as the “head” of the church, though I do not reject my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Roman Catholic.

Do you accept me as a true believer in Jesus Christ, saved and going to heaven, through my repentance from sin, and faith in the death of Jesus in my place and His resurrection from the dead?"

I accept you as a brother in Christ. On whether or not you are going to heaven, nobody on this earth is qualified to tell you, if you have eternal life.

Only God knows your heart and circumstances.

For example, if in your home and community you were taught anymosity towards others instead, of love, you would be judged differently that the person who was always shown love and compassion.

God gave us two main requirements: That we love Him with ALL our hearts, and that we love each other like ourselves.

Only God can determine how much you have love Him and others.

I lived in the "Sin of Presumption" for many years, and didn't realize how far off the mark I was. My broken heart didn't know how to love like Mary, much less Jesus. Since I was more faithfull that most people around me, I thought God was satisfied I didn't hurt anyone, and was good.

With the help of the Holy Spirit, I now know how to humbly get on my knees and ASK for a heart like Jesus, and ASK for His mercy.