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Locked on 03/01/2010 11:24:30 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/28/2010 10:27:03 PM PST by restornu
Through Joseph Smith have been restored all the powers, keys, teachings, and ordinances necessary for salvation and exaltation.
Suppose for a moment someone told you these three facts about a New Testament personality and nothing more: first, the Savior said of this man, “O thou of little faith” (Matthew 14:31); second, this man, in a moment of anger, cut off an ear of the high priest’s servant; and third, this man denied knowing who the Savior was on three occasions, even though he had walked with Him daily.
If that is all you knew or focused upon, you might have thought this man a scoundrel or a no-good, but in the process you would have failed to come to know one of the greatest men who ever walked the earth: Peter the Apostle.
Similarly, attempts have been made by some to focus upon or magnify some minor weaknesses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, but in that process they too have missed the mark, the man, and his mission.
Joseph Smith was the Lord’s anointed to restore Christ’s Church to the earth. When he emerged from the grove of trees, he eventually learned four fundamental truths not then taught by the majority of the contemporary Christian world.
First, he learned that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, are two separate, distinct beings.
The Bible confirms Joseph Smith’s discovery.
It tells us that the Son submitted His will to the Father (see Matthew 26:42).
We are moved by the Savior’s submission and find strength in His example to do likewise, but what would have been the depth and passion of Christ’s submission or the motivational power of that example if the Father and the Son were the same being and in reality the Son was merely following His own will under a different name?
The scriptures give further evidence of this great truth: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son” (John 3:16).
A father offering up his only son is the supreme demonstration of love that the human mind and heart can conceive and feel.
It is symbolized by the touching story of Abraham and Isaac (see Genesis 22).
But if the Father is the same being as the Son, then this sacrifice of all sacrifices is lost, and Abraham is no longer offering up Isaac—Abraham is now offering up Abraham.
The second great truth Joseph Smith discovered was that the Father and the Son have glorified bodies of flesh and bones.
Following the Savior’s Resurrection, He appeared to His disciples and said, “Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:39).
Some have suggested this was a temporary physical manifestation and that when He ascended to heaven He shed His body and returned to His spirit form. But the scriptures tell us this was not possible.
Paul taught, “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him” (Romans 6:9).
In other words, once Christ was resurrected, His body could never again be separated from His spirit; otherwise He would suffer death, the very consequence Paul said was no longer possible after His Resurrection.
The third truth that Joseph Smith learned was that God still speaks to man today—that the heavens are not closed.
One need but ask three questions, once proposed by President Hugh B. Brown, to arrive at that conclusion (see “The Profile of a Prophet,” Liahona, June 2006, 13; Ensign, June 2006, 37).
First, does God love us as much today as He loved the people to whom He spoke in New Testament times?
Second, does God have the same power today as He did then?
And third, do we need Him as much today as they needed Him anciently?
If the answers to those questions are yes and if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, as the scriptures so declare (see Mormon 9:9), then there is little doubt: God does speak to man today exactly as Joseph Smith testified.
The fourth truth that Joseph Smith learned was that the full and complete Church of Jesus Christ was not then upon the earth.
Of course there were good people and some components of the truth, but the Apostle Paul had anciently prophesied that the Second Coming of Christ would not come “except there come a falling away first” (2 Thessalonians 2:3).
Following Joseph Smith’s First Vision, the Restoration of Christ’s Church commenced “line upon line, precept upon precept” (D&C 98:12).
Through Joseph Smith was restored the doctrine of the gospel being preached to the dead in the spirit world to those who did not have a fair chance on earth to hear it (see D&C 128:5–22; see also D&C 138:30–34).
This was not the invention of a creative mind; it was the restoration of a biblical truth. Peter had long ago taught, “For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit” (1 Peter 4:6).
Frederic W. Farrar, the well-known Church of England author and theologian, made the following observation about this teaching of Peter: “Every effort has been made to explain away the plain meaning of this passage.
It is one of the most precious passages of Scripture, and it involves no ambiguity. . . . For if language have any meaning, this language means that Christ, when His Spirit descended into the lower world, proclaimed the message of salvation to the once impenitent dead” (The Early Days of Christianity [1883], 78).
Many teach that there is one heaven and one hell. Joseph Smith restored the truth that there are multiple heavens. Paul spoke of a man who was caught up into the third heaven (see 2 Corinthians 12:2).
Could there be a third heaven if there was no second heaven or first heaven?
In many ways the gospel of Jesus Christ is like a 1,000-piece jigsaw puzzle. When Joseph Smith came on the scene, perhaps 100 pieces were in place.
Then Joseph Smith came along and put many of the other 900 pieces in place so that people could say, “Oh, now I understand where I came from, why I am here, and where I am going.” As for Joseph Smith’s role in the Restoration, the Lord defined it clearly: “This generation shall have my word through you” (D&C 5:10).
In spite of this flood of restored biblical truths, some honest searchers have commented: “I can accept these doctrines, but what about all those angels and visions Joseph Smith claimed to have?
It seems so hard to believe in modern times.”
To those honest searchers, we lovingly respond: “Were there not angels and visions in Christ’s Church in New Testament times? Did not an angel appear to Mary and to Joseph?
Did not angels appear to Peter, James, and John on the Mount of Transfiguration?
Did not an angel rescue Peter and John from prison?
Did not an angel appear to Cornelius, then to Paul before he was shipwrecked and to John on the Isle of Patmos?
Did not Peter have a vision of the gospel going to the Gentiles, Paul a vision of the third heaven, John a vision of the latter days, and Stephen a vision of the Father and Son?”
Yes, Joseph Smith did see angels and visions—because he was the instrument in God’s hands to restore the same Church of Jesus Christ as existed in primitive times—all of its powers as well as all of its doctrines.
Yet sorrowfully, on occasion, some are willing to set aside the precious gospel truths restored by Joseph Smith because they get diverted on some historical issue or some scientific hypothesis not central to their exaltation, and in so doing they trade their spiritual birthright for a mess of pottage.
They exchange the absolute certainty of the Restoration for a doubt, and in that process they fall into the trap of losing faith in the many things they do know because of a few things they do not know.
There will always be some seemingly intellectual crisis looming on the horizon as long as faith is required and our minds are finite, but likewise there will always be the sure and solid doctrines of the Restoration to cling to, which will provide the rock foundation upon which our testimonies may be built.
When many of Christ’s followers turned from Him, He asked His Apostles, “Will ye also go away?”
Peter then responded with an answer that should be engraved on every heart: “To whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:66–68).
If someone turns from these restored doctrines, where will he go to learn the true nature of God as taught in the grove of trees?
Where will he go to find the doctrines of the premortal existence, baptism for the dead, and eternal marriage?
And where will he go to find the sealing powers that can bind husbands and wives and children beyond the grave?
Through Joseph Smith have been restored all the powers, keys, teachings, and ordinances necessary for salvation and exaltation.
You cannot go anywhere else in the world and get that.
It is not to be found in any other church.
It is not to be found in any philosophy of man or scientific digest or individual pilgrimage, however intellectual it may seem.
Salvation is to be found in one place alone, as so designated by the Lord Himself when He said that this is “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” (D&C 1:30).
I bear my witness that Joseph Smith was the prophet of the Restoration, just as he claimed to be. I echo the strains of that stirring hymn: “Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!” (“Praise to the Man,” Hymns, no. 27). In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Okaaaay?
We do believe in the Bible.
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As a Christian, I believe that the Bible is translated correctly, every word...and is the ONLY words of God...
As a Christian, I do not believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of the Chrsitian god nor is he necessary at any step for my salvation nor entrance into the throneroom of god the Father...
As a Christian, I do not believe that the Church that Jesus founded was ever lost, stolen, taken away in any fashion or form out of this Earth, and that there was any need to “restore” her...
As a Christian I do not believe that Joseph Smith “restored” anything to do with Christianity or my salvation...
As a Christian I believe that Joseph Smith was an occultist, an opportunist, a conman, a charlatan and a false prphet and that God destroyed him because he boasted he was greater than the Jesus of the Christian Bible...
Would you call THIS derision?
"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general. False churches, false prophets, false worship - breeding as they do a way of life that runs counter to the divine will - all these are signs of the times" (The Millennial Messiah, pg.403).
"What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power? ...It is all of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel ...It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts" (The Millennial Messiah, pp.54-55).
"As with other doctrines and ordinances, apostate substitutes of the real thing are found both among pagans and supposed Christians" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.72).
"When inquiring and scientific minds delve into the narrow and bigoted creeds of the apostate sects of Christendom it is not surprising that they rebel against those dogmas falsely set forth as the tenets of true religion" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.107).
"Christianity is the religion of the Christians. Hence, true and acceptable Christianity is found among the saints who have the fullness of the gospel, and a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.132).
"The only real superiority of the apostate sects of Christendom over their more openly pagan counterparts is the fact that the Christian sects (though rejecting the doctrines, ordinances, and powers of the gospel) have nonetheless preserved many of the ethical teachings of Christ and the apostles" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.240).
"And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.269).
"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, pg.316).
"In large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed before the Unknown God, and to whom Paul said: "Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 374).
"For instance: The creeds of apostate Christendom teach untruths about God, and the scriptures say that those who accept these creeds 'have inherited lies.' (Jer. 16:16-21.) Those who accept any of the doctrines of the apostate churches are said to 'believe a lie.' (2 Thess. 2:1-12.) The process of apostasy consists in changing 'the truth of God into a lie.'" (Mormon Doctrine pg. 440).
"Pagan tribal gods were the creation of the imaginations of apostate peoples, just as the creeds and apostate views of God which prevail in modern Christendom are the result of forsaking the truth" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 511).
"Mormonism is Christianity; Christianity is Mormonism; they are one and the same, and they are not to be distinguished from each other in the minutest detail ...Mormons are true Christians; their worship is the pure, unadulterated Christianity authored by Christ and accepted by Peter, James, and John and all the ancient saints" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.513).
"The gods of Christendom, for instance, are gods who were created by men in the creeds of an apostate people. There is little profit or peace in serving them, and certainly there is no salvation available through them" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg.545).
We do believe John 3:3 that “unless a man is born again he will not see the Kingdom of God.”
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Joseph Smith never believed that nor was it ever written in the Mormon tenets or the book of Mormon
It SURE IS!
Yep
We do believe John 3:3 that “unless a man is born again he will not see the Kingdom of God.”
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Joseph Smith never believed that nor was it ever written in the Mormon tenets or the book of Mormon
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You sure are inconsistant I recall one did not need to be baptized only be a believer!
Meaning that is what so many of you antagonist have proclaimed in the pass did not need to be baptized so how are you born again TN?
Mormon.org only provides the 'milk'. The questions I asked are meat, I trust that you know that much.
I also trust that you are aware that mormonism teaches that it is the only 'true' faith, that the others are apostate and worse. Look it up in the teachings of your prophets if you don't believe me.
Trusting in and following a fictitious Christ will result in a fictitious salvation, no matter how sincere we may be. Therefore I ask you again to answer those questions which define Jesus
Last Romans 5 - Did Jesus die to give you instant access to heavenly father upon death - or just a general resurrection?
And I leave you with these other words from Romans
Rom 3:23 KJV - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 KJV - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:26 KJV - To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 KJV - Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 KJV - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
And Ephesians
Eph 2:8 KJV - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 KJV - Not of works, lest any man should boast.
John 3:3 (King James Version)
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Re: Joseph Smith—Prophet of the Restoration (LDS Ecumenical)
From restornu | 03/01/2010 8:44:48 AM PST new
Just for kicks.....
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Again you send me an unsolicited FReepmail...
Well this thread might be kicks for you, no doubt...
But for me its about the very real and serious subject of the salvation of my soul
I dont take my spiritual future lightly...
Christianity means life everlasting to me...
Not just “kicks” or a good time on a boring snowy day...
Also, you may want to read the article posted here where the 2009 edition of Gospel Principles calls Christianity “false Christianity” and its theology of God “pagan” and its adherents those who are “called” Christian.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2451841/posts
WOW, now antagonism towards the moderators!
Did you miss your Postum this morning, resty?
excellent points.
Would someone honestly explain to me how an article that claims to be about a modern day prophet who bashed other churches be considered ECUMENICAL?
And this is an exact duplicate of an open thread posted a few days ago.
In FACT, the very first post is antagonistic!
This is an Ecumenical Thread but a few have a hard time with the Golden Rule please pray for them....and later the poster accuses the mods of bias!
please define how Jesus is the LDS ‘Savior what does He save mankind from? Does His blood cover the sins of ALL mankind, or just those who obey certain rules and do certain rituals? And what do you mean exactly by save? Your statement is kind of vague.
Christians believe he was always God, that He was born of a literal physical virgin, that He lived a sinless life, that He paid for ALL of our sins by the shedding of His blood on the Cross, that we can do NOTHING to earn it or ‘help’, and that it only given to us by faith alone in Him.
What are the LDS positions on this. I have done some research and not sure we mean the same things, but I could be wrong.
Preach nothing but faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Um, as an Evangelical Christian, I would agree with that but, how do the LDS reconcile that with all the other stuff (like Temples) that they add to faith.
“The Heavens are not closed” ~
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I agree that the Heavens are not closed (to individuals through the Holy Spirit) but that in no way means that there is modern day revelation for all Christians through only one person (a prophet).
LOLFOTF
Ahhh, are you off your meds this morning.
What are you laughing about?
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