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To: John O
Seeing as the bible tells us to “choose life”, I’ll side with God on this one and say we have a choice.

The point is, God knows who will choose life. We don't. That's why we must evangelize. As Christ Himself said, "You haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me. However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. ~ John 6:36-39

5 posted on 02/28/2010 7:28:23 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege (When I survey the wondrous cross...)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
The point is, God knows who will choose life. We don't. That's why we must evangelize.

And that is exactly what free-will believers believe!

According to 5 point Calvinism as I undertsand it, evangelism is useless. Those people who are "pre-ordained" to be saved will be saved. They cannot avoid it, they are doomed to salvation. Those who are "pre-ordained" to hell will go to hell no matter how much they are evangelized. They are doomed to hell.

Nothing anyone does can possibly affect this as the people have no choice.

Mother Theresa (for example) did all those works of charity exactly, and only, because God pre-ordained her to do so.

The serial rapist murderer does so exactly, and only, because God has pre-ordained him to do so.

God is totally sovereign and nothing happens unless He ordains it to happen. Free will doesn't exist.

So if we evangelize those who are doomed to be saved will be saved. If we do not evangelize, those who are doomed to be saved will be saved. It would be a better use of our time to go fishing (In my opinion).

(end Calvinist viewpoint)

The problem with this whole viewpoint is that according to Calvinism we are merely robots fulfilling our programming. We cannot be accountable for anything becuase we have no choice to do anything. God is merely a huge puppet master saving some and damning some for His own enjoyment.

Hardly the picture that the scriptures paint of God. So either the scriptures are wrong and God really doesn't care for us at all, or Calvins interpretation of scripture is wrong. I'll side with scripture.

As Christ Himself said, "You haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me. However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. ~ John 6:36-39

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Yep Jesus draws EVERYONE to himself. Some answer, some don't. But all have the choice.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Oh my, Scripture says that God is not willing that ANY should perish. And according to Calvin God ALWAYS gets what he wants. So either everyone goes to heaven (that is, no one persihes) or Calvin is wrong. Again, I'll side with scripture.

God knows everything that is going to happen. AND He gives us free will to choose good or evil, to accept Him or reject Him. There is no contradiction.

15 posted on 03/01/2010 5:07:22 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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