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To: Grunthor; vladimir998
Actually, no, we don't believe some old guy in a funny hat in Rome is infallible in everything. We don't even believe that the Pope is infallible in everything and every pronounce made that is not ex-cathedra. The Pope can say tomorrow that we should have fried eggs instead of scrambled and that's his PERSONAL view and we are under no obligation to follow that -- quite unlike pastor-driven, man-made groups that are outside The CHurch.

The doctrine of infallibility was used only about a half-dozen time in the past 2000 years and since 1870 it has been used only once in 1950.

That may come as a surprise to you, but the popular idea of infallibility is wrong -- it's only used on a matter of dogma when the pope speaks specifically of it ex-cathedra, i.e. in his role as the successor of +Peter.

An infallible pronouncement -- whether made by the pope or an ecumenical council is made only when some doctrine has been called into question. most doctrines have never been doubted by the large majority of Christians.

The Church teachings have been defined by ecumenical councils -- in fact, there are many major topics on which it would be impossible for a pope to make an infallible definition without duplicating one or more infallible pronouncements from ecumenical concils -- hence there is no sudden new developments made ex-cathedra.

infallibility is NOT impeccability -- there is no guarantee that popes won't sin or give bad example, but they do not proclaim points of incorrect dogma ex-cathedra. Popes have disagreed with others, but those would be his own private theological opinions which are NOT infallible -- no more than yours. Infallibility aookues ibkt ti solemn, official teachigns on faith or morals, not to disciplinary decisions or even to unofficial comments on faith or morals. What it DOES do is prevent a pope or council from solemnly and formally teachign as "truth" something that is, in fact, error. This is grace given by God coupled with the theological study of the Church and councils.

Repeating again -- since 1870, this has only been used ONCE in 195.

Individual interpretations as used by those outside The Church do not have the depth and the grace of the Holy Spirit which has guided the Church through 2000 years. While Origen and Tertullian as individuals made flawed interpretations, the Church as a whole did not. While +Augustine erred in his youth as did Ignatius of Loyola, the Church did not.

The Church is a community of Christian believers stretching back to the Apostles -- we together constitute The Church -- this is a community not an institution, a community of Jesus Christ. Hence, since we are of God, our community survives, while those NOT of God, but man-made (heresies) die.
847 posted on 03/12/2010 7:26:07 PM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Cronos

and we are under no obligation to follow that — quite unlike pastor-driven, man-made groups that are outside The CHurch.


Outside what church? Examples?


850 posted on 03/12/2010 8:44:06 PM PST by Grunthor (Everyone hates the U.S. at least until they need liberated.)
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