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To: annalex

“and many(laws) — such as prohibition of eating pork — are abolished according to the scripture”

right, but necromancy and laws against idolatry aren’t.

“The Church does not teach that it is a physical place;”

If so the Church shouldn’t have made a policy of selling people out of it. Again, if that doctrine has been abolished, I’d like to know. I am not aware that it has.

“But how is it disagreeing? It is not taught directly, but the fact that she is the only human in history God created for His own mother, it is logical, plus there is the fact that the Angel in Luke 1 describes her as already filled with grace.”

One can be filled with grace without being immaculately conceived.

Noah was filled with grace. Zechariah says God will pour on the house of David and one the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace. Paul was filled with grace. Etc.

“But how is it disagreeing?”

Scripture repeatedly tells us Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God. There is no other.

“On superabundance of grace, see Rom. 5:19-20. ‘

Ok, it reads For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.

Amen. I see nothing there that indicates that we can pick up extra grace from other sinners and have it mercifully applied to our own account. I see only that Jesus’ obedience made His people righteous.

“Logically, since Christ gave all of us eternal life, the saints are no longer among the dead, and the chasm between those alive in Christ and us no longer exists. Praying to the saints is at least consistent with the Christian scripture, even if not directly described in it.”

Praying to or attempting to contact the dead is strictly forbidden. Those who died in the OT in faith went to heaven too, and so were not spiritually dead. Abraham for example went to heaven, as did Moses and so on. Yet we were under no circumstances to pray to them, try to get special grace from them, etc.

“There are two direct prooftexts sanctioning the use of images for worship, 2 Cor. 3:18 and Gal. 3:1. “

2 Cor 3:18 says we all with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

How you get a sanction for use of images in worship from this is not apparent to me.

Gal 3:1 says Oh foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christs was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?

Are you positing that the apostles portrayed Christ as crucified by displaying some sort of statue? All we see in Scripture is that Christ is preached. That is the method of his portrayal. Never is is said the apostles showed them the drawing, or displayed the icon, or lifted up the statue. It just says they preached and taught.


112 posted on 02/25/2010 9:49:37 PM PST by Persevero (Satan tries to separate what God puts together and join together what God separates.)
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To: Persevero
Most of your post is simply stating that you interpret the scripture differently than the Church does, or as in Christ being the only begotten Son of God, you say nothing the Church does not teach. The question was, where does the Church contradict the scripture? That is may contradict an individual interpretation of it is a given.

pick up extra grace from other sinners

Whjere is that Catholic doctrine? The verse I showed you says that once a saint has been justified, there is enough grace to go aroud for sinners. That is the doctrine of the treasure of merits, which you thought was unscriptural.

Abraham for example went to heaven

He went to the Limbo of the fathers, but not to Heaven. Heaven was opened by Christ with His sacrifice of the Cross. That, too, enabled prayers to the saints.

2 Cor 3:18 says that we are to behold the Holy Images so that we may be transformed by them. Gal 3:1 indicates that the Galatians were looking at the crucifix, since Christ in person was not crucified in front of they very eyes in Galatia.

116 posted on 02/25/2010 10:28:20 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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