Posted on 02/15/2010 9:07:17 AM PST by GonzoII
The Scenario:
Ever have one of those days when you’re feeling full of energy and vigor? I mean, you’re feeling just obnoxiously happy? Well, this is one of those days.
Driving home from work, you switch on the radio to see what’s happening, and you tune in to a local Protestant radio station just in time to hear a preacher speaking against various Catholic doctrines concerning Mary. The show is called Pastor Bob’s Bible Hour. Pastor Bob proclaims: “Jesus knew Catholics would come along and begin to worship His mother and call her perpetual virgin and absurd things like that. But the Bible says: ‘Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brethren James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all of His sisters with us?’ (Matt. 13:55-56a). And isn’t it sad, my brothers and sisters?”
Pastor Bob goes on to say: “Jesus dealt with these Mary worshippers in His day. In Luke 11:27-28, the Bible says, ‘A woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts that You sucked!” But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”’”
On a normal day you would probably just listen, take a few mental notes and drive on. But not this time. You’re feeling a little bit too saucy. You take the first exit you see and head for a phone. This is just one more reason why you need to buy that cell phone you’ve been talking about getting.
Step One:
(Excerpt) Read more at envoymagazine.com ...
Uh, uh. You just spent several posts trying to tell me that I agreed with the Catholic Church. Make up your mind.
Please remember that not all Protestants have these hate filled, slanderous, feelings towards other Christians. I remember the one time a friend invited me to her "church", at that point I had no problem attending services of other faiths. I was shocked to learn that a basically uneducated man, was literally able to pitch a tent, and spew venom in the name of God. Even worst, people accepted anything he said.
I thought all churches were like ours. My priest was an accomplished accountant by trade, and had an additional 6 years of theological training. (We really take our gifts for granted.)
It took me years to get over the notion that other Christians weren't in the business of attacking our church and spreading lies. I even took my child out of a Christian school and requested our Catholic school teach apologetics.
The truth is that people whose faith amounts to attacking other faiths, are few. Most people focus on walking on their personal spiritual journey, in some cases are able to accomplish that better than many Catholics. We are all subject to temptation and deception. If we respond with animosity, we are sinning in the same manner. Remember that the devil even tempted Jesus with the word of God. Consider it a temptation by the devil to resent others. It happened to me. It is pride that allows us to get indignant at false accusations. May God help us carry our crosses with humility and love.
Thank you God for all your gifts, and thank you Jesus for sanctifying everything that you touched here on earth. May the Holy Spirit give us all the blessings of discernment and temperance.
About one specific thing, which I cited.
I never said you agreed with the Catholic Church on everything.
No need on my end, obviously.
Only a vanishingly-small percentage of protestants hate Catholics.
Did the Greys give you a Jordi LaForge visor?
It would be a wonderful gift to sanity and Biblical Christianity if you’d be able to tell us all
which . . . portions . . .
of . . . MYSTERIES OF THE ROSARY . . .
does any Roman Catholic et al
consider to be lies?
Did Mary need a Savior to shed His Blood for her sins, or not?
Of course she needed a Savior. She said so.
490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace".133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God's grace.
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
492 The "splendor of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son".136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love".137
493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God "the All-Holy" (Panagia), and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature".138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
Now please answer the question in your own words. One sentence or less would really do it.
Did Mary, who gave birth to the Savior in Bethlehem, require that Savior to shed His Blood for HER sins?
You could answer with a “yes” or a “no.”
Goodness!
Desperation striking again?
She needed a Saviour from what?
“He shall save his people from their SINS.”
If Mary had no sins, then from what did she need a Saviour?
I agree. I prefer a good and fair reading of the text to Tradition. We protestants do not denigrate Mary. The vitriolic reaction to our position only indicates to me a lack of substance on the other side.
I agree. I prefer a good and fair reading of the text to Tradition. We protestants do not denigrate Mary. The vitriolic reaction to our position only indicates to me a lack of substance on the other side.
= = =
True enough . . . though I think it’s more likely an indication . . .
that the porker with the spear in it’s side . . . hitting the mark . . . is the one squealing.
Why MY own words?
You made a claim about what the Catholic Church does (how she regards Mary).
I'm showing you, in the words of the Catholic Church, that you are completely wrong:
And the Catholic Church regards her, not as God does (a sinner who also required a Substitutionary Saviour), but as a deified individual.False (see the Catechism paragraphs quoted above).
Perhaps you could refresh my memory . . .
how is it that the vast bulk . . . what 90% or so??? of the Marian stuff
was only formalized around 1930 or after.
!!!!TRADITION!!!! evidently took 1600 years or so to fossilize?
You claim you’re not blind, and I’m wondering how you accomplished the change.
You still SEEM blind.
Haven’t seen any hereon.
If I suspect the stuff you've forgotten was wrong, why would I want to refresh that?
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