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Book: John Paul II used belt to whip himself
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | January 26, 2010 | A. P.

Posted on 02/12/2010 2:03:10 PM PST by Graybeard58

VATICAN CITY -- Pope John Paul II whipped himself with a belt, even on vacation, and slept on the floor as acts of penitence and to bring him closer to Christian perfection, according to a new book by the Polish prelate spearheading his sainthood case.

The book "Why He's a Saint" also includes previously unpublished speeches and documents written by John Paul, including one 1989 signed memo in which he said he would resign if he became incapacitated.

The book also reported for the first time that John Paul forgave his would-be assassin in the ambulance on the way to the hospital moments after he was shot on May 13, 1981, in St. Peter's Square. And it reported that he initially thought his attacker was a member of the Italian terrorist organization the Red Brigades.

The book was written by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the postulator, or main promoter, for John Paul's canonization cause and was released Tuesday. It was based on the testimony of the 114 witnesses and boxes of documentation Oder gathered on John Paul's life to support the case.

At a news conference Tuesday, Oder defended John Paul's practice of self-mortification, which some faithful use to remind them of the suffering of Jesus on the cross.

"It's an instrument of Christian perfection," Oder said, responding to questions about how such a practice could be condoned considering Catholic teaching holds that the human body is a gift from God.

In the book, Oder wrote that John Paul frequently denied himself food -- especially during the holy season of Lent -- and "frequently spent the night on the bare floor," messing up his bed in the morning so he wouldn't draw attention to his act of penitence.

"But it wasn't limited to this. As some members of his close entourage

(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: 1tim47; bookreview; catholic; johnpaul; repost; vatican
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To: Dutchboy88

It is good that you read. Now lets us work on understanding. The belt is, of course, the tool of mortification, not the motivator. The Spirit is, in the days of St. Paul, and of the days of John Paul, what moves us to read the Bible and do what it says. Try it one day.


81 posted on 02/13/2010 9:06:27 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Dutchboy88
Paul did not practice penances. They are nowhere to be found in the Gospel of Christ.

"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ." St. Jerome

Publicly flaunting your ignorance is not a trait you should be proud.

"And in those days cometh John the Baptist preaching in the desert of Judea. And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:1-2

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17

"And going forth they preached that men should do penance:" Mark 6:12

"No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:3

"No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:5

"I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance." Luke 15:7

"So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance." Luke 15:10

"And that penance and remission of sins should be preached in His name, unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47

"But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should every where do penance." Acts 17:30

"Testifying both to Jews and Gentiles penance towards God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21

"But to them first that are at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and unto all the country of Judea, and to the Gentiles did I preach, that they should do penance, and turn to God, doing works worthy of penance." Acts 26:20

"Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness, and patience, and longsuffering? Knowest thou not, that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance?" Romans 2:4

"For the sorrow that is according to God worketh penance, steadfast unto salvation; but the sorrow of the world worketh death." 2 Corinthians 7:10

"Lest again, when I come, God humble me among you: and I mourn many of them that sinned before, and have not done penance for the uncleanness, and fornication, and lasciviousness, that they have committed." 2 Corinthians 12:21

"The Lord delayeth not His promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance." 2 Peter 3:9

"Be mindful therefore from whence thou art fallen: and do penance, and do the first works. Or else I come to thee, and will move thy candlestick out of its place, except thou do penance." Apocalyse 2:5

"In like manner do penance: if not, I will come to thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." Apocalypse 2:16

"And I gave her a time that she might do penance, and she will not repent of her fornication. Behold, I will cast her into a bed: and they that commit adultery with her shall be in very great tribulation, except they do penance from their deeds." Apocalypse 2:21-22

"Have in mind therefore in what manner thou hast received and heard: and observe, and do penance. If then thou shalt not watch, I will come to thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know at what hour I will come to thee." Apocalypse 3:3

"Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance." Apocalypse 3:19

"And the rest of the men, who were not slain by these plagues, did not do penance from the works of their hands, that they should not adore devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and wood, which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither did they penance from their murders, nor from their sorceries, nor from their fornication, nor from their thefts." Apocalypse 9:20-21

"And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God, who hath power over these plagues, neither did they penance to give Him glory." Apocalypse 16:9

"And they blasphemed the God of heaven, because of their pains and wounds, and did not penance for their works." Apocalypse 16:11

82 posted on 02/13/2010 9:18:43 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: firebrand; Houghton M.
I think I see the problem now. You do not recognize intent when talking about actions. Our hearts are known to Him, our intents are known to Him. That is the key to our difference of opinion.

I have always thought John XXIII was a genius. He brought Catholics back to conscience in Vatican II (as well as doing so many other things that changed the Church, or should have changed it if there were not all this backsliding into form and ritual, and of course all the misunderstanding of the liturgical reforms etc.). If you don't treat conscience as paramount, you can easily fall into thinking the intent of something doesn't matter, only the superficial similarity to something else.

83 posted on 02/13/2010 9:31:23 AM PST by firebrand
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To: Houghton M.
Sorry, this should be an embarrassment to all Christians.

This almost has the same effect on me as when I saw Muslims take to the street and start beating and cutting themselves in the head in the name of their faith.

84 posted on 02/13/2010 9:35:01 AM PST by kara37
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Someday, someone, somewhere will teach this pathetic organization how to read basic Greek. Until then, the sheeple live in darkness. Repent Rome, if you can.


85 posted on 02/13/2010 9:35:21 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88; Houghton M.
We come to the end of your crazed defense of the indefensible Roman sect. No longer will we have to endure rantings about how self-mutilation appeases the Vatican gods, nor must we bear the misinterpretations foisted on the poor unsuspecting adherants. We will see when this is all over who exactly is the "embarrassment". Watch for the Gospel of grace to flatten that goose-stepping country called Vatican City.

Show me any example of "crazed defense."

Show me any rantings about how self-mutilation appeases

Show me ANY example of Vatican gods.

Point to any poor unsuspecting adherents.

That vile paragraph of yours is the clearest example of anti-Catholic bigotry that I have seen lately. Thank you for showing your true stripes.

86 posted on 02/13/2010 9:43:31 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne

You are welcome. And we will note those who cling to that errant monstrosity of Rome.


87 posted on 02/13/2010 9:48:07 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

So I guess you can’t show any examples of the bizarre fantasies you embrace?


88 posted on 02/13/2010 9:49:07 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: Dutchboy88
And we will note those who cling to that errant monstrosity of Rome.

And do what with your notes? That is laughable.

89 posted on 02/13/2010 9:50:03 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: Houghton M.
Self flagellation is a mental illness that indicates that the person is guilt ridden and trying to punish himself for his sin.. One needs to look to Christ..

I think an honest inspection of Church history says the church rewards those, that beat and tortured themselves with self flagellation , with sainthood..

It is somehow viewed as holy instead of a sick perverted gospel of self salvation.

Sometimes when confronted with an uncomfortable truth we see it as self-righteousness in the other, we see it as cruel and un-Christian to speak truth to combat lies and deception, when in fact it is the greatest of love and concern for the eternal soul of the other. We see Christ overthrow the money changers and call the Pharisees hypocrites, Jesus confronted false teachings with hard truths.

Please know that those that confront the false teachings and practices of your church do it out of the highest form of love, a love that desires that all men come to the truth who is Christ

90 posted on 02/13/2010 9:56:18 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: RnMomof7
Please know that those that confront the false teachings and practices of your church do it out of the highest form of love, a love that desires that all men come to the truth who is Christ

So, what about fasting? In the wilderness? For forty days and forty nights? Would you presume to tell Christ he was mentally ill?

Please know that those who pervert the teachings of the Catholic Church do so out of the highest form of self-regard, a self-regard that presumes to judge everything that others do here on earth to discipline their souls, and who never have regarded any other teaching of Christ except their own superiority in twisting scripture to their own benefit.

91 posted on 02/13/2010 10:03:27 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: Houghton M.
He lived in constant prayer, already as a child. The evidence is overwhelming. Everyone who knew him as a child, as a young priest, professor
commented on how he spent hours in obvious prayer and that the rest of the time he seemed to have a kind of “practice of the presence of God” .

You know being in prayer all the time has little meaning..it is WHO you are in prayer to that matters. The pagans prayed and offered daily sacrifices and the Jews prayed to and danced around a golden calf..

They believed they were praying to their god...

BTW, God is always present to His people in the form of the indwelling Holy Spirit..

92 posted on 02/13/2010 10:32:44 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: Graybeard58

My daddy whupped me enough...and my lads will say the same one day..lol


93 posted on 02/13/2010 10:35:26 AM PST by wardaddy (I have been in a serious RHCPers mood lately......)
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To: Judith Anne
So, what about fasting? In the wilderness? For forty days and forty nights? Would you presume to tell Christ he was mentally ill?

Fasting is prescribed in scripture,,but not self flagellation

94 posted on 02/13/2010 10:35:47 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: Judith Anne
Please know that those who pervert the teachings of the Catholic Church do so out of the highest form of self-regard, a self-regard that presumes to judge everything that others do here on earth to discipline their souls, and who never have regarded any other teaching of Christexcept their own superiority in twisting scripture to their own benefit.

Where does one find the teachings of Christ?

95 posted on 02/13/2010 10:37:33 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: Judith Anne

How many posts does it take to gather your thoughts?

This may explain why the superstitions of Rome are so attractive.


96 posted on 02/13/2010 10:37:36 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88; Dr. Eckleburg
This is a great admonition for those stuck in the sludge pot of Rome's cultish superstitions and self-made religion. Only those clinging to self-righteousness need to admire angry old men who inflict self-abuse to prove something to God. Just think for a moment at the idiotic mental image of a man whipping himself and thinking God is somehow impressed. It is apparent this lost soul has no clue, no clue whatsoever of the depth of his need for forgiveness or the extent of his sin nature. But, such has been the error of Rome. We call to Rome, repent...if you can.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Beware of salesman who launch tirades against other products but never have to say anything good about their own. No thanks, ma'am. Doctor, heal thyself.

97 posted on 02/13/2010 11:00:59 AM PST by Hacksaw (Trees aren't our "friends")
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To: Hacksaw
"Beware of salesman who launch tirades against other products but never have to say anything good about their own."

For those without eyes to see or ears to hear the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and His grace alone, it would seem that nothing has been said about the alternative to the Roman cult. However, we keep speaking, if by some miracle God would grant the scales to fall and they would come into the light of grace.

98 posted on 02/13/2010 11:28:20 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: firebrand

What you write is incoherent. Intent was part of my commentary—JPII’s intent was to strengthen himself in warfare against the Devil, as is true of all mortification practices. It’s a legitimate intent. One can have good intent but still use wrong means. He did not. Conscience simply refers to assessing the rightness and wrongess of means X in circumstances Y — he did all of that. You make no coherent argument; by implication you apparently mean that John XXIII employed conscience JPII did not. But you offer no evidence of the latter, no argument. You just throw words around.


99 posted on 02/13/2010 1:55:11 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: RnMomof7

You are offensive. You are basically saying that John Paul II prayed to a false God, an idol.

How about a dose of your own medicine: you are of your father, the father of lies.

You can dish it out. Can you take it?


100 posted on 02/13/2010 1:56:37 PM PST by Houghton M.
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