Posted on 02/10/2010 8:31:36 AM PST by FourtySeven
To me, this seems to be a central issue, if not *the* central issue in the Christian claim. For this reason, I thought it might be worthy of discussion.
I've intended to post something like this for a while, as it seems to get at the heart of virtually all the debates we wrangle with here on FR, and yet never really gets discussed. I was particularly motivated today, not just because I am trapped for the 3rd day in my home because of this danged snow, but because of this post here , an interesting exchange between RnMomof7 and Mr Rogers.
Many may answer, "You get it through Baptism". Still others, "You get it through God directly". Then, we may go to Scripture to resolve the issue and ultimately fail. Not because Scripture is a failure, but because our understanding of it is. This is not an extraordinary claim; we all know this is true from our own experience, here, and in other debates. Debates reliant upon Scripture alone ultimately fail. This is simply a statement of fact.
Thus, I'm not asking for a Biblical exegesis, or at least not that alone. I'm simply asking for people's experience in the matter.
How did you receive God's grace? How did you know you received it?
I will start off by answering my own question: I received God's grace, and continue to do so through the Incarnation of the Christ. Specifically, the people I meet in His Church, who at times have been witnesses of Christ, have for me at the same time been Christ at specific times. He is Incarnated now, in His Mystical Body, the Church.
How do I know this? Because of changes in me that can only have occurred via Another. Someone outside of me. A Source not me. The changes in me can not have come from within me, but from Another.
Thus, to me, "God's grace" is "real" not because of some theological argument, or some magical moment, but literally because it *is* "real". God's grace is in "reality", the reality we are experiencing now, the same one where Democrats exist and global warming is faked. The same reality where the US is the greatest country on earth. The same reality where 3 feet of snow piles up in my back yard driving me cabin crazy! haha
I would argue that the only way we can receive God's grace IS in reality. His grace must be something literally "real" for us, or else, it can never really change us. It will merely be, at best, a nice idea we treasure on Sundays (or Saturdays) when we go to a church building and worship for an hour or 3. This notion of "grace" is insufficient, I would submit. It's insufficient because it doesn't change lives; it doesn't truly distinguish itself from any other belief system, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.
If God isn't truly "real", then there is no point in believing in Him. The only way He can be "real" is if He is in our reality, *now*. This may seem like an obvious point to some, and it is in some ways, but I believe it is often overlooked, if not overshadowed by all the complex theological debates we have here.
If He has no impact on my life, our lives, *now*, then what use is it to believe? Because we are worried about going to Hell? This is a foreign concept to me. I believe Hell exists because God says it exists. But this isn't a reason, per se, to *begin* to believe. To begin to believe, for me, I need to see Him present. To see Him present, I need to see an extraordinary Presence.
This extraordinary Presence is, I believe, His Grace, and I "get it" by simply looking for Him in reality. I receive it, not by my own actions, but by the actions of Another. The actions of Another, in other people. In His Church.
Courtesy ping because I mentioned you by name.
I had to buy mine from DuPont.
By repenting of sin, and asking for forgiveness. Anything more is works that cannot save (Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Isa. 64:6, etc.)
Ask
Ask.
I certainly believe this is true, and I believe it is reflected in my OP. However, this is not a complete answer to my question(s).
Once you "ask", *how* do you receive it?
Did that come with a warranty? :)
Er, well, God *gives* it.
Ping to my post #7.
Yes, but *how* does God "give it"?
Not quite. Both of those things require grace in order for you to do them, or even to consider doing them.
Anything else is the heresy of semi-Pelagianism, condemned back in the 6th century.
Well, I’m glad you’re pleased enough with your particular denomination to ascribe Grace to it, alone, but you’re mistaken.
I know via faith, repentance and prayer answered, sometimes in stunning and immediate ways.
I have a sentimental, soft spot for certain denominations, but can’t honestly say I belong to any one in particular. So, that’s not it, for you, me or anyone else.
Heaven forfend we engage in semi-Pelagianism which was identified as a mortal threat 600 years after Jesus died.
By repenting of sin, and asking for forgiveness.
Which is, of course, exactly what Jesus said to do. I've been through the entire Bible and can't find the word "Pleagianism" in it one single time.
IMHO, once you honestly ask for forgiveness through Christ, affirming your true belief in God, it’s received.
That’s all there is to it.
Thank you, a very interesting answer.
If you wouldn’t mind, perhaps you could elaborate on the “stunning and immediate ways” your prayers have been answered. If it’s too private, that’s ok.
I’m also curious, do you believe you continue to receive God’s grace? If so, how do you receive it?
My humble opinion: you don’t “get” grace, you allow it in because it’s all around you. It’s in a fresh breeze and a stranger’s smile and a quiet moment and a glimpse of a sunset. When you finally drop your ego and see the many little free miracles coming at you... THAT’s when you “get” God’s grace. It has a lot to do with gratitude.
All I can tell you is how it was for me. I think it was always there and I just needed to open my eyes to it. It wasn't a matter of receiving anything, it was just a matter of being honest enough to stop denying it.
Reading that, I don't know if it actually answers your question. Most of the others on the RF are better at articulating this sort of thing than I am - you've come to the right place.
LANDIS: Not many people have grace.
ELAINE: Well, you know, grace is a tough one. I like to think I have a little grace...not as much as Jackie O -
LANDIS: You can’t have “a little grace.” You either have grace, or you...don’t.
ELAINE: O.K., fine, I have...no grace.
LANDIS: And you can’t acquire grace.
ELAINE: Well, I have no intention of “getting” grace.
LANDIS: Grace isn’t something you can pick up at the market.
ELAINE (fed up): Alright, alright, look - I don’t have grace, I don’t want grace...I don’t even say grace, O.K.?
That’s all there is to it.
I believe that too, but with all due respect, that doesn't answer *how* you receive it. By what method is God's grace poured upon you?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.