Posted on 02/08/2010 3:49:00 PM PST by NYer
Ping!
If the Pope hadn’t encourage the overthrow of Queen Elizabeth, MAYBE there would have been less animosity? A few attempts on one’s life can sour one’s humour...
Does the exhibit include the places that the Catholic Church burned the martyrs that brought the English Bible to the public. Does it include the places that Hus and others were jailed for defying the chains of Rome? Does it show where the troops from the Pope struck down the 50,000 peasants for wanting the true Gospel of Jesus Christ instead of cultish sacerdotalism?
What is a Hus?
Well, that didn’t take long- just repeating the standard old talking points that date back from Elizabethan times.
Hus was the proto-Luther, whose poisonous doctines led to the deaths of thousands during bloody conflicts in the present-day Czech Republic.
Elizabeth became Queen in late 1558. Her brother had reigned from 1547-1553. I don’t have a list of Catholic martyrs by date, but scanning thru the list on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_martyrs_of_the_English_Reformation
I spot one: German Gardiner, 1548. There maybe more that I missed - I’m too lazy to sort more carefully.
Queen Mary reigned from 1553-1558. Wiki lists 64 Protestant martyrs by name for her 5 years, and says there were more. Foxe claimed 300+.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Persecutions
Queen Elizabeth, from 1559-1579, martyred 11.
So prior to 1580, the toll was 1 for King Edward in 6 years, and 11 for Elizabeth in 21 years, compared to 64-300 for the Catholic monarch Mary in 5 years.
27 years with 12 under Protestants, and 5 years with 64-300 for the Catholic Queen.
Obviously, something changed around 1580. From 1580-83, the toll was about the same for Elizabeth’s first 21 years, and then the killings began in earnest. I’m not enough of an armchair historian to say what caused the change, but it is very noticeable.
“Well, that didn’t take long- just repeating the standard old talking points that date back from Elizabethan times.”
Maybe because they are true?
I hold no brief for Mary, but at least she was honest as to why she was executing people.
Not correct. The list shown is for Catholic martyrs, not just those killed on religious charges. It includes those killed for treason.
You wrote:
“If the Pope hadn’t encourage the overthrow of Queen Elizabeth, MAYBE there would have been less animosity?”
Nope. The English began killing priests in the 1530s - more than 20 years BEFORE Elizabeth even became queen.
“A few attempts on one’s life can sour one’s humour...”
Elizabeth’s “humour” was always sour in regard to the faith.
You must be Catholic.
What list is that? All the lists I have seen do not include the recusants or those executed for treason.
The link I posted is the list I used to see what the dates were:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_martyrs_of_the_English_Reformation
In the intro, it says, “The Catholic martyrs of England are men and women who died for the Catholic faith in the years between 1535 and 1680. Certain of them have officially been recognized as martyrs by the Catholic Church.
Catholics in England and Wales were executed under treason laws. Legislation of the 16th century made treasonable refusing to assent to the royal supremacy over the Church that had been asserted by Henry VIII, or being (or harbouring) a Catholic priest. The standard penalty for all those convicted of treason at the time was execution by being hanged, drawn and quartered.”
King Henry VIII killed a lot of Catholics. His son did not, and Elizabeth did not prior to 1580. By 1584, Elizabeth was killing dozens - and I don’t know the reason for the change at that time.
Henry, Edward, and Elizabeth executed a lot of Catholic laity under the treason laws as well.
Evidence?
Henry VIII - yep. No disagreement. Elizabeth after 1580? Yep. But not Edward, and not the first 20 years of Elizabeth’s reign - that I see.
If I am missing it, provide the evidence and I’ll cheerfully admit I’m wrong.
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