Ballard speaks on Mormons in the media

Rexburg Standard Journal ^ | Feb. 1, 2010 | Nate Sunderland

[Godzilla]

We are waiting...

do DO Do do Do DO Do Do DO Do DO DO DODoDododo,

[reaganaut]

I’ll take crickets for $1000, Alex.

[reaganaut]

Thanks for the reminder, ‘zilla. I always forget. :)

[reaganaut]

I agree. II, IS aptly named.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Well, something must be the case as to why you're so crazy about me...and if you think I'm "delusional"

You're from my state and its embarrassing. You're no better off than a Mormon. You're delusional.

[MHGinTN]

Tonight's show was a good one! The topic was 'atonement'. Shawn covered Tyndale's creating that word (in the 16th century, and I have a copy of Tyndale's translation, so I can verify that one quickly), yet it was used by Smith in his fictional B of M, in Nephi, IIRC.

Shawn did a great job of comparing and contrasting the Mormonism meaning of atonement and the Christianity meaning.

[MHGinTN]

Shawn is going into the "B" category of words next week, so I think I'll write to him and cover that 'satan is a brother god to Jesus' notion as a fallacy in mormonism. He might get a kick out of it.

[reaganaut]

You’re no better off than a Mormon. [II]

- - - - - - -
Actually he is a lot better off than Mormons. When he dies he is going to the presence of God the Father because he trusted Jesus Christ to save him rather than trusting the LDS Church.

Makes a HUGE difference.

[reaganaut]

It was a good episode tonight. He did a great job of explaining the differences and how the LDS water down the work of Christ.

[Religion Moderator]

Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Colofornian]

II, Yeshua the Messiah loves you. I love you. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob isn't embarrassed by you. As Godzilla says, t'anks for bumpin' the thread. Please visit anytime.

Deuteronomy 13:1-4:

1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods"[plural]
(gods [plural] you have not known) [many think the Messiah was the pre-incarnate "Angel of the Lord" (theophany); therefore the Israelites DID know Him!
"and let us worship them," [again, "them" is plural]
3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

My points?
(1) Yeshua didn't advocate other "gods" (plural)
(2) Yeshua was no stranger to the Israelites. Jacob wrestled with him. He appeared to Zorah in the book of Judges & talked about a conception to come. He appeared to Gideon, where fire consumed the unleavened bread (just like the fiery wrath of heaven came down upon Messiah, the bread sent from heaven). Or don't you find it interesting what Zechariah said in Zech. 3?

1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?" [My note: Don't you find it interesting that even high-ranking angels like Michael the Archangel would not even rebuke Satan? 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9) Only a "Lord" could rebuke him.]
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."

This "Angel of the Lord" told Joshua He had removed His sin, and placed rich garments upon Him -- the same image of what we see in the book of Revelation. Our own clothes are ragged; filthy, said Isaiah. But Jesus places a white pure garment upon us. You will appear beautiful to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on that day, wearing His robe.

Finally, II...Deut. 13:4 says we must "revere" the Lord your God...and staying in Deut...going to 32:43 in the Masoretic Text/Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) -- these say, and let all the angels worship him. Now who is the "Him" referenced here?

Well, the Jewish writer who wrote the book of Hebrews cites the above in Heb. 1:6: And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Now who is this "firstborn," II? The "firstborn" whom God has commanded the angels to worship? Think of all the wonderful Christmas carols you've heard. Beautiful music. Inspirational music. Some songs that sing of angels worshipping a certain babe. The invitational God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would absolutely love it if you joined in on those carols next Christmas season.

Signed, His emissary, lowest rank.

[BlueMoose]

Like the Old Testament, the New Testament teaches that there is only one God (Mk 12:29; Eph 4:6; Jas 2:19), who is pure spirit (Jn 4:24; 1 Jn 4:12), the creator of the world (1 Ti 4:4; Heb 3:4), holy and good (Ro 3:4; Eph 4:24; Rev 4:8), all-powerful (Mt 19:26; Mk 2:7, 10:18) and worthy of mankind’s worship and love (Mt 6:24; Mk 11:22; Lk 2:14).

[BlueMoose]

The Christian God is a personal God. This does not mean that God is a human being, but that God has “personality” and the capability of both relationships with other personal beings. This is seen clearly in both the Old and New Testaments, in which God is described in strongly personal terms (father, shepherd, etc.) and establishes relationships with human beings.

[greyfoxx39]

"We understand the covenants and the commandments we need to enter into so we can go back to the presence of our Heavenly Father," Ballard said. "We understand that as members of the church. But out there even among those that are writing in religious columns -- they don't get it."

BIRTH

by W. John Walsh

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee…"

Latter-day Saints believe that every member of the human family is an eternal being. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught : "The spirit of man is not a created being; it existed from eternity, and will exist to eternity."  While each person is eternal, he or she goes through "successive phases"  of existence. Each of these phases is marked by a birth or change, including our spirit birth, our mortal birth, and our spiritual conversion. This series of births is not to be confused with  reincarnation, a belief which the Church rejects.

Each birth is a milestone that marks achievement of a higher state of development than previously enjoyed. Eventually, if we are faithful to the  plan of salvation, this series of births increases our "capacity to grow in grace, knowledge power and intelligence itself, until [we], gaining the fulness of all things, become like [our] Father, the Supreme Intelligence." However, if we are not faithful to the proscribed plan, then our progression is stopped and we never complete the intended journey or reach the final milestone. President Joseph F. Smith taught:

"What is  damnation? It is being barred, or denied privileges of progression, because of failure to comply with law. All who fail to enter into the celestial kingdom are damned, or stopped in their progression, but they will enter into some  other glory which they are entitled to receive."

Mankind began in the  premortal world as spirit element which has always existed and is co-eternal with God. Our first birth occurred when our "self-existent spirit element [was] born as spirit children" to our Heavenly Parents who used "the ordained procreative process…" The First Presidency noted: "All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity." Since "this birth constituted the beginning of the human ego as a conscious identity," it is a higher form of existence than that enjoyed previously as spirit element.

Mortal birth, our second birth, "is the event by which one's spirit body is temporarily joined with a mortal tabernacle begotten by earthly parents." Beings with physical bodies are in a higher state of development than beings without such bodies:

"In contrast to the view that the subtle powers of intellect or soul must finally transcend the body or anything corporeal, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that all beings ‘who have tabernacles (bodies), have power over those who have not’ (TPJS, p. 190; 2 Ne. 9:8). At minimum, this is taken to mean that intellectual and spiritual powers are enhanced by association with the flesh. It follows that a long absence of the spirit from the body in the realm of disembodied spirits awaiting resurrection will be viewed not as a beatific or blessed condition, but instead as a bondage (D&C 45:17; 138:50). Moreover, ‘spirit and element [the spirit body and the physical body], inseparably connected, [can] receive a fulness of joy. And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy’ (D&C 93:33, 34)."

Mortal birth is the first milestone which some members of the human family never reach. In the premortal world, some spirit children of our Heavenly Father rebelled against him. As punishment, the progression of these souls— Lucifer and his devils—has been stopped and "they remained unembodied" and are forever denied the opportunity to receive a mortal body.

While receiving a physical body is crucial to our continued eternal development, it is not sufficient to realize our full potential as divine children of our Heavenly Parents. When we are born into mortality, we experience a form of spiritual death—or separation from the presence of God, as a result of the Fall of Adam. To overcome the effects of this spiritual death, it is necessary that we are born again. Christianson explained:

"Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ all people are given opportunity to be born again in a spiritual sense as his sons and daughters so as to return to God's presence as his spiritually begotten children (Mosiah 5:7-9; Alma 5:14). The process of being born of the spirit begins when one is baptized and receives the gift of the Holy Ghost. Since the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, the effects of the spiritual death, or separation between man and God, is lessened individually when one is truly born of the Spirit."

A spiritually reborn person enjoys the "constant companionship of  the Holy Ghost," "the third member of the Godhead." With this companionship, a person ascends to a higher state of development and receives insights into the "solemnities of eternity" as well as  purification from all sin. Eventually, he will be prepared to live again with his Heavenly Father as an exalted being. Unfortunately, most people will abuse their agency and reject this rebirth. Thus, few people will reach this final milestone and thus enter into  Godhood

Link

[Godzilla]

I look forward to hearing that one. FYI he also maintains a pdf copy of his teaching - handy to d/l and read for future references. I’ve noticed that since he’s started this series,he’s gotten quite a few first time mormon callers - he’s got their attention!

[MHGinTN]

When listening on Tuesday nights, 10 Eastern time, via www.hotm.tv ( ;^)), you can tell some of his questioners are FARMS operatives. The call screeners allow the occasional FARMS shill to get on air. HOWEVER, the calls from genuine Mormon seekers of the truth are far and away the most instructive to the non-mormon listeners. In fact, the program is so effective, I think I'll send in a donation.

[Godzilla]

I don’t know if I’d call them FARMS operatives any more than they are TBMs with superiority complexes. But you are correct in that the genuine mormons are very instructive to all groups mormon and non mormon.

[restornu]

This is an good example that that mainstream are clue less and have no understanding of the difference between the body and soul.

Now is there a knowledge of why the Lord is trying man in this probationary state.

The tradition of men have short circuit mainstream minds and the Word of God.

If the being does not bridle the bodies passions which includes behavior towards their fellowman and become pure in heart those souls will not be able to endure the presents of the Lord.

If the resurrected being is not pure in heart it will receive a body but not a celestial one anything less will not be able to endure the presents of the God the Father because it would disintegrate in the presents of Heavenly Father!

Daily like a battering ram the anti’s kick against the prick!

[Godzilla]

Thanks for bumping the thread resty - giving more people the opportunity to see the falsehoods of smith’s teachings all the more. We are gratified you chose today to register your comment.

[restornu]

Daily like a battering ram the clue less anti’s kick against the prick!