Posted on 02/02/2010 12:03:56 PM PST by Colofornian
REXBURG -- A top LDS religious leader gave a rare unscripted fireside to Brigham Young University-Idaho students Saturday.
Elder M. Russell Ballard, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, focused much of his remarks on how the LDS Church is viewed by nonmembers and the media. He taught students about conveying the message of the LDS faith.
Ballard spoke candidly about experiences with the national news media, specifically touching on his experiences during former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. Romney is LDS.
The apostle talked about the challenge of defending and conveying LDS beliefs in a way that could be understood by people not affiliated with the church.
"You remember Mr. (Mike) Huckabee (who was also vying to be the Republican candidate for president), who among other things said that Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil were brothers?" Ballard asked students. "Remember that? It went all over the media.
"Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.
"But they (the media and nonmembers) don't understand that, because they don't have the (LDS gospel) restoration. They don't understand the spiritual relationship that ... we are all sons and daughters of God, and that Lucifer was one of those and (that) he chose to use his agency in an unrighteous way."
One question that Ballard says reporters frequently ask is "Why aren't Mormons Christian?" He said evangelicals have criticized that church for not being a Christian faith because the LDS Church does not consider the 4th century Nicene Creed as religious doctrine. Rather, it believes in a modern restoration.
"(We) explain to (reporters) who our Heavenly Father is, who the Lord Jesus Christ is, and who the Holy Ghost is, as revealed to us through the restoration of the gospel through the prophet Joseph Smith," said Ballard.
"It always bothered (reporters) when we would say that we just don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was praying to himself when he often prayed to his Heavenly Father for guidance."
Another question often asked by reporters dealt with the secretive nature of the LDS Church.
"We have almost 19,000 chapels scattered around the world, 53,000 full-time missionaries that are trying to drag people into the 19,000 chapels. We don't understand why you would say we are a secret society," Ballard said as he related his response to BYU-Idaho students.
He explained that the secretive stigma had to do with church restrictions on who can enter LDS temples.
"The world has no concept of what a temple is ... they see our temples and think our temples are like a cathedral (and because) they can't go into that cathedral ... therefore we are a secret society.
"We take great joy in explaining to them the purpose of the temple. The temple is not a meetinghouse -- the temple is a house dedicated to the Lord where his children come to make sacred covenants."
Ballard talked about spiritual ignorance or darkness among so many of God's children. He reminded students "how tremendous a thing it is to be a member of the church and to have a knowledge of who we are and where we came from."
"We understand the covenants and the commandments we need to enter into so we can go back to the presence of our Heavenly Father," Ballard said. "We understand that as members of the church. But out there even among those that are writing in religious columns -- they don't get it."
He said LDS church members "have a big job ahead of us."
"We have a tremendous responsibility as members of the church. I think we are going to have to learn to be more aggressive. I think we have to learn to be a little more effective in our ability to share what we know to be true with the world."
He also spoke briefly about the Proposition 8 controversy, and how he had received letters from LDS members questioning why the church was involved. He says the answer was simple.
Speaking of the biblical Adam and Eve, Ballard said,
"They had a charge to multiply and replenish the earth ... that is a marvelous and glorious experience to bring up children, to have and raise a family and that is done between a husband and a wife who are married.
"Marriage is a vital, important doctrine of the church, and we can't do anything about it but stand in favor of it."
He encouraged membership to treat the topic with love but said that the LDS Church cannot succumb to abandoning the "great and marvelous principle of marriage between a man and a women."
Ballard concluded his remarks by urging students not to have an "all is well in Zion," attitude.
He told students to fortify their testimonies of the restoration of the gospel.
"You must be prepared to stand for that -- and in loving, kind, gentle terms, be able to defend it and teach it. That's what the Lord expects of you and what he expects of me."
In addition to Ballard's address BYU-Idaho students also heard from two other high-ranking LDS officials, Elder Robert E. Chambers and Elder Glenn L. Pace.
As of Monday afternoon, official transcripts of the fireside had not been released.
"We have almost 19,000 chapels scattered around the world, 53,000 full-time missionaries...
53,000 missionaries? I recall 2 years ago when the Lds church says it had 60,000. Perhaps the economy has pushed a near 12% decline in missionaries.
From the article: "You remember Mr. (Mike) Huckabee (who was also vying to be the Republican candidate for president), who among other things said that Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil were brothers?" Ballard asked students. "Remember that? It went all over the media. "Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.
Here, we have an Lds general authority conceding that -- to quote him "Well they are!" in reference to the issue of whether "Jesus and the devil are brothers."
Now in case someone views that this information needs to be suppressed...not let it become aired out...or they think that we are overriding realities in our assessments of Mormonism, Elder Ballard concedes at this fireside chatm adding: "But they (the media and nonmembers) don't understand that, because they don't have the (LDS gospel) restoration. They don't understand the spiritual relationship that ... we are all sons and daughters of God, and that Lucifer was one of those and (that) he chose to use his agency in an unrighteous way."
(And here I recall how so many Mormons were expressing offense over Huckabee's comments...yet a general authority concedes they were true...that either means some Lds don't know what their church teaches, or some Lds were feigning offense when there was none)
From the article: One question that Ballard says reporters frequently ask is "Why aren't Mormons Christian?" He said evangelicals have criticized that church for not being a Christian faith because the LDS Church does not consider the 4th century Nicene Creed as religious doctrine. Rather, it believes in a modern restoration.
#1, this is a pretty simplistic assessment of what the Christian church has said about Mormonism. #2, chronologically the Mormons declared the Christian church was "apostate" long before any comments came out about the Mormon church from Christians.
So the first Q that needs to be raised is to ask Mormons why they don't think Christians are true Christians? And then, why do Mormons want to replace Christians as the only true Christian church? (Lds Doctrine & Covenants 1:30 says the Lds church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth"...by implication, Lds condemns then every other church as false & dead...can people then understand why the Christian church just might want to defend ourselves against this kind of charge?
From the article: "(We) explain to (reporters) who our Heavenly Father is, who the Lord Jesus Christ is, and who the Holy Ghost is, as revealed to us through the restoration of the gospel through the prophet Joseph Smith," said Ballard. "It always bothered (reporters) when we would say that we just don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was praying to himself when he often prayed to his Heavenly Father for guidance."
Strawman. Mischaracterization of what Christians believe. Christians have not said that Jesus and the Father are the same "Person" or "personality."
I mean, in some cultures & even our own at times, a family is defined more by that name identity than are the individual members of it. It's one family. One unity. If that's true with a tight-knit human family, then imagine how "tight-knit" God can be!
Elder Ballard implies Christians believe in ancient modalism -- meaning that it's the same one "Person" of God revealing Himself thru different modes. In other words, Father God became the Son for 33 years on earth and then became the Holy Ghost. That's modalism. And Christians have long condemned it as a heresy.
I often wonder abut this
He explained that the secretive stigma had to do with church restrictions on who can enter LDS temples.
“The world has no concept of what a temple is ... they see our temples and think our temples are like a cathedral (and because) they can’t go into that cathedral ... therefore we are a secret society.
“We take great joy in explaining to them the purpose of the temple. The temple is not a meetinghouse — the temple is a house dedicated to the Lord where his children come to make sacred covenants.”
___________________________________________________
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
That still doesnt explain it...
And ya know whatelse it odd ???
Jesus didnt build Himself a “temple” in order “to make sacred covenants” (whatever those secret things are)
Jesus went out into the desert and spoke to God..
How many of the mormon profits have walked out into the desert without their expensive air conditioned Cadillacs and fasted for 40 days all alone ???
How many have hugged a guy with AIDS ???
I’m told they all think they are too good to speak to their own mem,bers...
Nobody dare go up and talk to Dallin Hoaxes hes too far above them ..
So what are the “temples” really for ???
Other than outrageously priced real estate representing funds for a rainy “belonging” to the Morg and brought and built with funds scammed out of the gullible members, who go without to give to their lying swinderling masters, “tithes” teeth and all..
It's offensive, donchaknow, to speak that factual truth that the mormon church would like to hide from the world.
I still have the memory of a time when there was a concerted effort to censor ANY rebuttal to mormon proselytizing on FreeRepublic. That mind-set is still there but I believe the censorship effort has gone underground via emails instead of being seen openly on threads.
"Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.
Oh my, and the mormonism apologists worked so hard to cover up their belief on this issue, even claiming their religion doesn't teach this heresy ... yes, heresy, because since Jesus is God that would put Satan prior to the advent of Jesus on earth as a 'brother god'.
Oh! Sorry, not supposed to connect the dots on this cult. I'll get back on the porch now and get out of the way of the big dogs ...
"Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.
Oh my, and the mormonism apologists worked so hard to cover up their belief on this issue, even claiming their religion doesn't teach this heresy ... yes, heresy, because since Jesus is God that would put Satan prior to the advent of Jesus on earth as a 'brother god'.
Oh! Sorry, not supposed to connect the dots on this cult. I'll get back on the porch now and get out of the way of the big dogs ...
Woah, way out ahead of me on this. I'm still trying to get it figured out. This is supposed to be heavenly father's planet, yet Jesus/Jehovah get all the worship in the OT. However, Jesus/Jehovah during this period is only a spirit child since he hasn't had the opportunity to come to earth and get a body and do all the mandatory things one must do before becoming a god in the first place. pant. . . pant. . . am I missing something?
Imagine the odds. Your Mormon obsession continues.
Yes, you’re missing the exposing of the obvious antithetical nature between Christianity and what Jesus taught about Himself, and what the Mormonism doctrine reduces Him to in claiming He and Satan could even be brothers in some where/when. Chapter One of John’s Gospel makes it plain that ALL things were made for Him and By Him and through Him. Satan is a created being thus he can never be a brother to the One Whom made all and for Whom all is made. ... That’s the Mormons’ cue to try and focus the discussion on God making Satan, which when pinned to their pantheon of gods returns them to the heresy of Jesus (The One through Whom ALL was made) being at some where/when a brother to Jesus and thus a brother god. It’s all very mystical don’tchaknow. Mormonism is merely the most recent mystery religion, an update on Zoroastrianism and satanism combined.
(Hey, if I'm "obsessed" with saving Lds; doesn't it mean you've proven you're "obsessed" with me? II, I'm flattered, but I'm "spoken for" both by Yeshua and my spouse. I mean, I am the object of a long list of your posts, right? :) )
thank you for the thread bump II, your contribution to keeping this thread in the public’s eye is most touching.
BTW, Shawn is on tonight, eleven Eastern. Or is it 10 Eastern ... those time zones confuse me, where on ends and another begins. Salt Lake City must be an hour later than Los Angeles, so it must be on at 10 Eastern. ( Was that a good enough repetition of when Shawn will be on? Muahahahahahaha )
Shawn McCraney can be seen and heard at http://www.hotm.tv/ on Tuesday nights, 10 Eastern. There is a link to watch live. The 1/26/2010 show is now up for viewing, if interested in the archives.
Saving? Lol. Delusional.
good podcasts (audio and video) for those who can’t listen live.
II, you once told colofornian to ping you when they posted a thread about something other than mormonism.
Well they did, and pinged you and you STILL have yet to respond....
We are waiting...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2429880/posts
Not delusional at all. There are a number of us on here who were saved and saved from the chains of Mormonism.
God does amazing things in bringing people out of that cult.
Saved by the inmans or the antis, your choice.
Not delusional.
Any more questions?
SZ
You’ve no doubt read of the truthers, and the birthers, well, ignorant is a tweaker ... the slugs that post only to try and raise a response, negative preferrably. There are several in the club. That particular one named itself well don’tyathink?
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