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To: reaganaut

I’m quite sure it doesn’t require excommunication for any and all “felonies”. The Church is not going to defer to government on the question of who gets excommunicated. In some states, it’s a felony to possess a gun without a valid permit, even if one’s permit just recently expired and would have been renewed if the person had just gone to the right office and filled out the right form and paid a fee by a certain date. No way is the LDS Church going to excommnicate someone for that sort of felony. In the case of Killpack, the issue will almost certainly center on alcohol, and what (if any) prior history he had with alcohol-related Church discipline. If this is, as far as the Church knows, a first time lapse, and he agrees to pursue whatever repentance steps his priesthood leaders prescribe, then at most he’ll get disfellowshipped for a little while, even if he gets convicted of a felony.


35 posted on 01/17/2010 1:32:23 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; ...

Remember the LDS church does not work (on many levels) as Christian churches do. “Repentance” only starts AFTER your jail term is over and your rights have been restored.

Do you have a copy of the Handbook of Instructions? Many LDS do not even know what is in it since it is only available to those in leadership positions.

I have a copy, however I am on a business trip (and away from my library) for the next few months. I have asked a few other freepers if they have copies to provide a source for you.

That being said, it is not the LDS “deferring” to government, it is the idea that if you are convicted of a felony, you must have been involved in behavior against LDS standards and therefore need to be excommunicated.

I worked as a secretary for one of the psychologists in the prison system there. I also personally knew people who were excommunicated for so called “minor” felonies (like DUI).

I stand by my statement, however I will allow that since he is “high profile”, it is possible that the LDS First Presidency will allow only for dis-fellowshipment since they can override the local leadership.


36 posted on 01/17/2010 12:02:52 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: GovernmentShrinker
It appears the CHURCH doesmn't want mere humans to know what they might face in the future:
 
Unauthorized distribution

Neither volume of the Church Handbook of Instructions is available for sale to the general public or the general church membership; however, an unauthorized copy is available on the internet. The church asserts copyright over the contents of the Church Handbook and prohibits its duplication.[8] The handbook emphasizes that "Book 1 has been prepared solely for use by general and local Church officers to administer the affairs of the Church."[4] The copyright to the Church Handbook is owned by Intellectual Reserve, Inc., a corporation owned by the LDS Church which owns the church's intellectual property rights.

After Book 1 was published in 1998, Jerald and Sandra Tanner's Utah Lighthouse Ministry published portions of it on the internet without permission from the church and without including the book's copyright notice. The text was also disseminated to other websites which the ULM's website linked to. In the 1999 lawsuit Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry, a United States district court issued an injunction prohibiting the further duplication of the contents of Book 1 and ordered ULM to remove the offending material from its website.[9]

In May 2008, the LDS Church notified the Wikimedia Foundation that it believed the copyright to the Handbook of Instructions had been violated by a link posted in Wikinews.[10] The link directed readers to the text of the handbook that was posted on the Wikileaks website, which is unaffiliated with the Wikimedia Foundation. Shortly after the complaint was made, Wikinews removed the link to the text from the article.

 

 

(From WIKI)

37 posted on 01/17/2010 12:56:57 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
The Church is not going to defer to government on the question of who gets excommunicated.

Oh?

Ever hear of the end of polygamy in 1890?

That was the GOVERNMENT telling the LDS bunch what to do!

38 posted on 01/17/2010 12:58:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; ...
In the case of Killpack, the issue will almost certainly center on alcohol, and what (if any) prior history he had with alcohol-related Church discipline. If this is, as far as the Church knows, a first time lapse, and he agrees to pursue whatever repentance steps his priesthood leaders prescribe, then at most he’ll get disfellowshipped for a little while, even if he gets convicted of a felony.

My source is the 2006 Church Handbook of Instruction. According to pg 119 of the hand book, in all conditions where a member has been disciplined by a Church Disciplinary council, if there is a crimial/civil sentence it states

If a person who has had Church Discipline has been convicted of a crime or found guilty in a civil action of fraud or other dishonest or immoral conduct, a disciplinary council should not be held to consider changing his Church status until he has fulfilled all terms and conditions of any sentence imposed by legal authorities. These conditions may include imprisonment, probation, parole, and fines or restitution. Exceptions require the approval of the First Presidency

Bottom line, how gravely did Killpack's DUI and his link to mormonism damage the image of the mormon church. Excom may be one of three means of punishment, however, he will lose his temple privilages for all until the full terms of the law are met - with the only exception being granted by the FP.

40 posted on 01/17/2010 4:19:43 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; ...
In the case of Killpack, the issue will almost certainly center on alcohol, and what (if any) prior history he had with alcohol-related Church discipline. If this is, as far as the Church knows, a first time lapse, and he agrees to pursue whatever repentance steps his priesthood leaders prescribe, then at most he’ll get disfellowshipped for a little while, even if he gets convicted of a felony.

My source is the 2006 Church Handbook of Instruction. According to pg 119 of the hand book, in all conditions where a member has been disciplined by a Church Disciplinary council, if there is a crimial/civil sentence it states

If a person who has had Church Discipline has been convicted of a crime or found guilty in a civil action of fraud or other dishonest or immoral conduct, a disciplinary council should not be held to consider changing his Church status until he has fulfilled all terms and conditions of any sentence imposed by legal authorities. These conditions may include imprisonment, probation, parole, and fines or restitution. Exceptions require the approval of the First Presidency

Bottom line, how gravely did Killpack's DUI and his link to mormonism damage the image of the mormon church. Excom may be one of three means of punishment, however, he will lose his temple privilages for all until the full terms of the law are met - with the only exception being granted by the FP.

41 posted on 01/17/2010 4:19:43 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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