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To: flowerplough; Salvation
Guess what I’m doubting is the Biblicity of little mother Mary’s upgrade in status.

A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).

Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

Where I come from, she warn’t much more than a nice girl who was in the right place at the right time.

According to Luke 1:28 - "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you." These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God.

Also, the phrase "full of grace" is translated from the Greek word kecharitomene. This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just "highly favored." She has been perfected in grace by God. "Full of grace" is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

In Luke 1:43, Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God" which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus' Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus' human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

As you can see, Scripture clearly indicates that Mary was chosen to be the Mother of God. She was not just any girl, picked at random.

13 posted on 01/02/2010 11:16:07 AM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

When Catholics recite “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you” while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God. Would that they’d stop there. Mary’s nice-ness, Mary’s grace-ness, Mary’s chosen-ness, all granted. But she’s teh mother of God’s son, Jesus. She’s not the Mother of God, nor is she Queen of Heaven.


14 posted on 01/02/2010 11:43:05 AM PST by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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To: NYer; Kolokotronis

” According to Luke 1:28 - “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God. / Also, the phrase “full of grace” is translated from the Greek word kecharitomene. This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. “Full of grace” is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.”

Hmmm...” 28And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” - NASB

Guess there is some debate on how best to translate the verse. Here is an explanation that seem reasonable, although I don’t know Greek so it could be a bunch of baloney...

http://www.ichthys.com/mail-Mary-full-of-grace.html

Mind you - this is not an insult to Mary, or an attempt to overturn early councils. I honestly don’t care what Mary is called, as long as it isn’t God. And I find the Immaculate Conception kind of strange, but I’m not smart enough to figure out the implications. And of course, that probably displays my amazing lack of curiosity...


20 posted on 01/02/2010 4:18:24 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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