Replies

“So, if everything needed for salvation is in the OT, then why was the NT written? You probably never even thought of that, right?”

Wrong. First, the OT DOES include everything required for salvation. Remember Jesus talking to the disciples on the road to Emmaus? “27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.”

Second, Paul was addressing not the extent of the canon, but the authority and power of scripture. It is God-breathed. It is from God, for us, and results in the man of God being fully equipped for every good work. That is the nature and power of scripture.

“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

But the extent of scripture is authenticated by God...it is “God-breathed”, not “Church-breathed”. As a practical matter, one can call anything you want scripture and attempt to live by it. We accept the teaching of the Apostles because A) it doesn’t contradict previous revelation, and B) the Apostles’ preaching was accompanied by signs and wonders - it was backed by the power of God.

And even now, it carries God’s power to save the lost, if they believe. And if they do not, they are lost. But of course, atheists don’t believe scripture, so they don’t believe they are lost. But then, atheists don’t believe in the authority of the Catholic Church (or any Baptist one), so saying the Church authenticates scripture is of no value...people accept both or neither.

“And yet all of those things are implicitly in scripture anyway.”

Where? Purgatory is contradicted by the sufficiency of Christ. Priests contradict the offices & roles explicitly taught, since there is no sacrifice for them to offer, other than the sacrifice offered by all believers - thanksgiving and good deeds. Scripture explicitly teaches our righteousness is found in the merit of Christ - there is no storehouse of merit for a pope to transfer the merit of one person’s good deeds to cover another’s sin. There is no Pope...not explicit, and not implicit.

“So the only thing that separates you from the Mormons is that they they have a feeling about their BOM which you don’t have.”

What separates you from Mormons is you have feelings about a Church that they do not share. In the end, each individual is responsible for his decisions, regardless of how they come to them.

Paul & Peter says the authority of scripture comes from God. Paul says all scripture is “God-breathed”. Peter says, “And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

Scripture’s authority is based in God, not in a Church decision 400 years later...

“Your feelings probably didn’t tell you to include anything about tradition.”

My THOUGHT is that tradition cannot contradict scripture...and for Catholics, it does.

“So do the Chinese have the common good or not?”

The Chinese government claims it works for the common good. That is why I told you it is important to define common good. Unbelievers run governments, and they define common good differently than believers...and you say government works for the real common good.

In Acts 17, we find, “26And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us...”

Yes, God has provided natural revelation (”having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place”), that men “SHOULD SEEK GOD”. Men should, but they do not...even though God “is actually not far from each one of us”, they do not find Him. We look for the wrong thing, because we want to be judged righteous on our own, instead of by faith.

“18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.”

That is not doing violence to the scripture, but reading them.

You wrote:

“Wrong. First, the OT DOES include everything required for salvation.”

Then why did the Holy Spirit both with the New Testament? Those who had ONLY the Old Testament didn’t know what it meant until Christ explained it. It was the same with St. Paul. He opened the scriptures of the OT with the oral traditions from which the New Testament information would be drawn.

“Second, Paul was addressing not the extent of the canon, but the authority and power of scripture. It is God-breathed. It is from God, for us, and results in the man of God being fully equipped for every good work. That is the nature and power of scripture.”

Excect, in verse 15, it is clear that he meant the Old Testament.

“Where? Purgatory is contradicted by the sufficiency of Christ.”

No, it exists because of it.

“Priests contradict the offices & roles explicitly taught, since there is no sacrifice for them to offer, other than the sacrifice offered by all believers - thanksgiving and good deeds.”

No, they offer Christ re-presented as the perfect sacrifice.

“Scripture explicitly teaches our righteousness is found in the merit of Christ - there is no storehouse of merit for a pope to transfer the merit of one person’s good deeds to cover another’s sin.”

That’s not even what an indulgence is. If you attack something, don’t you think you should know what it is first?

“There is no Pope...not explicit, and not implicit.”

Matthew 16.

If this is an example of your sputtering, then this thread will only get more pathetic in the Protestant department. I see that you summoned others of the usual suspects to the thread too. Desperate? Can’t stand on your own?