Posted on 12/28/2009 11:26:45 AM PST by urroner
For the sake of a discussion, let's assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing. You play the part of the Christian and I will play the part of the agnostic. (BTW, none of the below is true about me. Upfront, I am Mormon, but I have tried to get into this discussion on this forum for some time, but haven't been able to do so.)
(I also realize that there are some of you who are more than eager to post anti-Mormon material on this thread and I request that you don't do so. I don't even want Mormonism mentioned in this thread beyond this point.)
Let's assume that I'm out trimming the hedges between your house and mine and that you are working in a garden close to the hedges.
My wife and three kids, ages 3, 8, and 13, are all out with me. My wife keeps telling me I need to paint the house before it gets colder, my younger children are throwing little rocks at me to get my attention and laughing and giggling, and the oldest is pestering me about buying her a cellphone and about the promise I made a year ago about letting her pierce her ears for earrings.
In a calm moment, my wife and I get into a neighborly chat, well would be my wife, I'm a science/math teacher at the local community college and it's very hard for me to just sit down and chitchat and you tell us you are Christian.
My wife tells you she is a Christian also, but doesn't go to any denomination and hasn't been to church in several years, since marrying me, but that I am always peppering her with questions that she doesn't know the answers to. She says that one of the reasons she has stopped going to church is because she likes to spend Sundays with me since we don't get a lot of lone time together. I spend a lot of time helping students at the college and when I'm home, I have to spend a lot of time with the kids. We do have a date night every week, but that's just not enough.
She also says that she is also tired of seeing so much hypocrisy among the church members and the preacher is always asking for money, that she had decided to stop going. She says that her preacher, when she was little, told her she was saved as did her parents, so her salvation was guaranteed.
You see me roll my eyes when my wife says that.
I tell you that I really don't go to any denomination, but I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, some of the writings of Marx, and some New Age books. I tell you that I don't know what the right way is or even if there is a right way?
I tell you that I tend toward Uniterianism, but Buddhism has some attraction to me also, but it's a little too esoteric for me. I tell you that I also have some problems with life after death, reincarnation, or any supernatural miracles.
I tell you my parents were Catholics before they died, but they died when I was very young and I have been to church only a couple of times since their funeral, but the people who adopted me were strong agnostics and never directed me to follow any particular path. I'm thinking about going back to the RCC, but haven't made any decision yet.
You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible when it comes to knowing where what is, but you realize that I don't interpret them at all as you do. In fact, I have a very shallow understanding of them. I think the Bible is good literature and can help a person do a lot of good in this life, but I don't know anything about being saved and what that means.
I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.
What are you going to say or do?
“BTW, the agnostic sitting in the next cubicle, who encouraged me to start this thread, thinks youre all goofy and off-your-rockers.
So let me see if I understand what is happening...
An agnostic and a guy in a mormon cult are at work,
stealing time from their employer so they can play games
with FReepers?
And when FReepers respond, this drives the agnostic thief
farther from Christianity and reinforces the faith of the
mormon thief?
And this somehow makes you feel so much better about being
in a cult? Really?
ampu
There fixed it for you.
Tag teaming for the devil...
Nice...
Sad that they are playing the wrong "game", but we will keep trying, we are reaching more of them then they are suckering in to counter with....
This from another posting by you......
sciolist - n
an amateur who engages in an activity without serious intentions and who pretends to have knowledge
1615, “smatterer, pretender to knowledge,” from L.L. sciolus “one who knows a little,” dim. of scius “knowing,” from scire “to know”
BTW, the agnostic sitting in the next cubicle, who encouraged me to start this thread, thinks youre all goofy and off-your-rockers.
So let me see if I understand what is happening...
An agnostic and a guy in a mormon cult are at work,
stealing time from their employer so they can play games
with FReepers?
And when FReepers respond, this drives the agnostic thief
farther from Christianity and reinforces the faith of the
mormon thief?
And this somehow makes you feel so much better about being
in a cult? Really?
ampu
Exactly.
To remind everyone of the attitude towards Christians by mormon leaders.....
"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness."
My wife, in the story, has told me that a persons spiritual welfare/salvation in wholly dependent upon Christ and nothing I can do.”
I mean all of the above, but in this context I mean spiritual. Part of this is why I recommend the Catechism. For, with all due respect, your wife's theology is passive and weak and not represented by the Church. Salvation comes from Christ. But that doesn't mean it comes without the obligation to be worthy of that given free from the cross.
Think of an analogy of modern society. Everybody is so quick to tell you their rights; but no one steps up and tells you their responsibilities. You get the rights but how many live up to the responsibilities?
Christ and God the Father laid duties on us. Love one another is an example. What you do to the least of your brethren you do to me is another. Promises to God are another: Baptism, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, keeping Holy days, keeping the 10 Commandments etc.
I usually explain the difference to people by comparing “spiritual” with “religious.” Spiritual people require no work. It is simply having a warm fuzzy feeling about something without having it interrupt their life and cause them any work. Think of a person who never attends church, even on Christmas,yet he would describe himself as ‘spiritual.’ That person has a theoretical knowledge of church and the Bible but doesn't let it shape his life or the life of his family. Instead, modern culture shapes their moral structure at random.
Such a Christian could, theoretically be a staunch advocate for abortion by refusing to define life or the right to life,or even consider if life was sacred. Such a person would easily adopt the stance that he wouldn't want his daughters “punished with a baby” if they became pregnant. Such a person would advocate homosexuality as normal and moral, promiscuity as having no repercussions, drugs as just cool, theft as morally justified as the person was wealthy and stealing was redistributing to people who weren't. You get the picture. Christianity becomes no obligation. It doesn't really enter into his life and modifies his actions or fulfills any of his obligations to God. All the rights, none of the responsibilities.
Now, contrast the religious to the spiritual. The religious person knows he falls short and will always fall short. That is why God showed such great love to send his son to take up our burden. Grace saves us, not our actions. But, we still have our responsibilities, our duties. A line from the Rosary: “...That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.”
Faith is made strong by work. It also brings inner peace. It is very tiring to live as a hypocrite. Mouthing the words while living in opposition is spiritual. Religious is trying always, and sometimes failing, to be made worthy.
As the man of the house yes, you are the head of the household and so responsible for your family. I would be sad if you decided against it.
Why is it that you supposed Christians keep asking these questions and NEVER ask the ones that SHOULD have been asked?
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Ask the jerk Bob Millet.
Still one of my favorites...
Considering even LDS sources discuss the “revisions’...
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/bom_changes.htm
And the more accurate Non LDS resources highlight the reality of the “Unchanging and unchanged” BOM:
Theres GOT to be a pony in here SOMEwhere!
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Check under the couch.
No, resty hasn’t come out to play with us.
Cheese eatin surrender MORMON?
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ROFL. and ‘adieu’.
Go here and watch the videos on the topic of “Welcome To The 11th Dimension.” Good stuff.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
Why DOES the San Diego Mormon temple look like Cinderella’s castle?
When you wish upon a Kolob. . . .
An agnostic and a guy in a mormon cult are at work,
stealing time from their employer so they can play games
with FReepers?
- - - - - - - -
Excellent point, AMPU.
I wonder how Urroner will respond when he is asked at his next temple recommend review THIS question?
#9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
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