Posted on 12/28/2009 11:26:45 AM PST by urroner
For the sake of a discussion, let's assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing. You play the part of the Christian and I will play the part of the agnostic. (BTW, none of the below is true about me. Upfront, I am Mormon, but I have tried to get into this discussion on this forum for some time, but haven't been able to do so.)
(I also realize that there are some of you who are more than eager to post anti-Mormon material on this thread and I request that you don't do so. I don't even want Mormonism mentioned in this thread beyond this point.)
Let's assume that I'm out trimming the hedges between your house and mine and that you are working in a garden close to the hedges.
My wife and three kids, ages 3, 8, and 13, are all out with me. My wife keeps telling me I need to paint the house before it gets colder, my younger children are throwing little rocks at me to get my attention and laughing and giggling, and the oldest is pestering me about buying her a cellphone and about the promise I made a year ago about letting her pierce her ears for earrings.
In a calm moment, my wife and I get into a neighborly chat, well would be my wife, I'm a science/math teacher at the local community college and it's very hard for me to just sit down and chitchat and you tell us you are Christian.
My wife tells you she is a Christian also, but doesn't go to any denomination and hasn't been to church in several years, since marrying me, but that I am always peppering her with questions that she doesn't know the answers to. She says that one of the reasons she has stopped going to church is because she likes to spend Sundays with me since we don't get a lot of lone time together. I spend a lot of time helping students at the college and when I'm home, I have to spend a lot of time with the kids. We do have a date night every week, but that's just not enough.
She also says that she is also tired of seeing so much hypocrisy among the church members and the preacher is always asking for money, that she had decided to stop going. She says that her preacher, when she was little, told her she was saved as did her parents, so her salvation was guaranteed.
You see me roll my eyes when my wife says that.
I tell you that I really don't go to any denomination, but I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, some of the writings of Marx, and some New Age books. I tell you that I don't know what the right way is or even if there is a right way?
I tell you that I tend toward Uniterianism, but Buddhism has some attraction to me also, but it's a little too esoteric for me. I tell you that I also have some problems with life after death, reincarnation, or any supernatural miracles.
I tell you my parents were Catholics before they died, but they died when I was very young and I have been to church only a couple of times since their funeral, but the people who adopted me were strong agnostics and never directed me to follow any particular path. I'm thinking about going back to the RCC, but haven't made any decision yet.
You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible when it comes to knowing where what is, but you realize that I don't interpret them at all as you do. In fact, I have a very shallow understanding of them. I think the Bible is good literature and can help a person do a lot of good in this life, but I don't know anything about being saved and what that means.
I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.
What are you going to say or do?
You and Mrs. are to much. You really have a relaxed way with words and charming humor.
I am just seeking answers.
I understand.
“The word Mormon was the name of an ancient prophet of God. He lived on the American continent a few hundred years after the advent of Christ. He had at his disposal a continuous religious and historical record of the people who had migrated to, and lived for hundreds of years on, the American continents. Mormon made an abridgment of these records, which contained the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The record was engraved on gold plates and deposited in a hill known as Cumorah, located in what we now know to be the state of New York. In this latter day, under divine direction, Joseph Smith obtained the plates and translated them by the power of God. This abridgment was titled the Book of Mormon. The meaning of the word, as given by Joseph Smith, is ‘more good.’
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And then...and then... Santa Claus came... and we all made cookies...and...and...there was a big party...and they lived happily ever after.
Like a two pound blackjack and just funny with the repartee. Then again, I dig your style.
How is it there are no artifacts of these epic battles? That’s a lot of dead guys and presume they weren’t using Marcus of Queensbury rules. There should be some trace of that, shouldn’t there be?
Why did no Mormon ancestor propagate and grow their nation?
How is the Cherokee were the only tribe found, thus far, to have a written language and an organized codified form of government?
If there were a Mormon tribe what would distinguish them from others? By this I mean, I know the difference between and a North American Indian and a South of the border Indian such as Mayans.
Where is the history explained above that Mormon kept? Is it lost? Why?
Where would the Gold have come from that Mormonism is based upon? Why gold? The Jews only get some stone tablets?
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All very good questions to ask those who are LDS.
Fact is, there is absolutely NO arch evidence at all to support Mormon archaeology. It is sad really, that people place their salvation in fairy tales.
Now see there... you just mince so many words. LOL - Bernie Madoff
Well of course you are great!! I'm guessing you are a pillar of your town....and all look upon you as great and wonderful! You should run for office....Heck, you could be the next Harry Reid....!!!
BTW...you bid us goodnight a few minutes ago...But here you are again!!
So another lie....!! LOL!!
“Ex-Christians for Christ” again, razor sharp. LOL
I was just trying to be an agnostic who was looking for truth from a traditional Christian and said that I like to ask lots of questions up front and people complained about me asking too many questions and I wasn’t believing what they were reading me out of the Bible.
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It is true that the Bible only has meaning to those who already have faith. The problem with being agnostic is that the agnostic demands proof from those who only have faith.
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Hebrews 11:1
Perhaps your agnostic friend should take Pascal’s advice and daily pray for faith until he believes. Faith is the only proof of faith.
Santa! Nooooh! He’s real.... Well until I turn 7.
Very good..........
This is how I came to see why they are so spirited about Genealogy as they are looking for answers to their existence and using this new tool to enrich their rolls with bogus members, long dead and never expressing or even knowing about LDS.
They are attempting to validate their existence with information not yet found and at the same time continue their lineage story.
I’ve not been sharp since the Iron age.....
He rolled over.
Well you definitely ain’t rusty.
Santa! Nooooh! He’s real.... Well until I turn 7.
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I never really believed in Santa like most people do.
My stepfather was Serbian Orthodox and his family patron saint was Saint Nicholas, so we celebrated Nicholas’ feast day (december 6th) as “Slava”. Since he and my mother started dating when I was 5, I was aware from a young age that “St. Nick” was a real person and NOT what my friends believed as “Santa Claus”.
The Easter Bunny, OTOH.... :)
Now you are picking on the Easter Bunny?
What next... Mormons? LOL
the agnostic sitting in the next cubicle, who encouraged me to start this thread, thinks you’re all goofy and off-your-rockers. He said that it’s the like of you who drove him away from Christianity years ago. He said that with the like of you, Mormonism has nothing to fear.
I also want to thank all those who are truly concerned for my salvation and told me in loving Christlike ways that you are. I truly appreciate it. My agnostic buddy said that if more people had been like you earlier in his life, he probably would have stayed Christian, but then he said with a wink “Only God knows.”
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As only GOD can search and know the heart of man. Both you and your agnostic co-worker will be in my prayers. Although your question was posed as a rhetorical one, perhaps office boredom or perhaps a real desire to discover God’s presence in ones life I pray and will continue to pray that both of you pose your questions to Him who holds all the answers.
May God richly bless you,
Marguerite
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Nothing wrong in communicating His Word by using Scripture in communicating in all things.
If an agnostic rejects Scripture, then he isn’t giving a fair hearing of the evidence and has already rejected its veracity. He might later stumble upon inherent contradictions within his independent reasoning, or maybe not, depending upon how scarred his perception has degenerated. Faith/belief is a discernibly different thinking process from logic, but not void of logic in building faith upon faith.
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