Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: aruanan
Let someone put you to death and then raise yourself from the dead. I seem to recall several of your philosophical brethren getting pissed off at Jesus for healing a man on the Sabbath. He replied that because of the patriarchs they circumcise a boy on the Sabbath so as not the break the law of Moses and demanded why they should be angry with him because he healed the whole man on the Sabbath. They also became angry when he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven" and grumbled that only God could forgive sins. He said to them, "Which is easier, to say "Your sins are forgiven" or "Get up. Take your mat and walk"?" And then told them that to show them that he had authority to forgive sins he commanded the paralytic to get up, take his mat, and go home. Another time your philosophical compatriots got mad at Jesus when his disciples were picking handfuls of grain on the Sabbath and eating it without washing their hands. He asked them if they didn't know that even David ate the showbread in the temple that wasn't lawful for any but the priests to eat and then declared that he was Lord of the Sabbath. All these things, well, except for the healings, could have just been someone talking out of his ass, but to declare that he would be put to death and then raise himself from the dead and actually do it makes his previous statements about himself more likely true than not.

Being raised from the dead does not make one the messiah. Working miracles does not make one the messiah. Only meeting the exact criteria of the Torah and Prophets as they themselves describe them makes one the messiah. Similarly, claiming to be "lord of the Sabbath" does not make one is "lord of the Sabbath." I am the King of Razzbo Jazzbo. See? I just claimed to be the King of Razzbo Jazzbo. That doesn't make me the King of Razzbo Jazzbo.

Of course, you could just choose not to accept his testimony or the testimony of those who witnessed these things and hide behind your own understanding (or lack of it) of Jewish law and prophecy as some of his compatriots did, but it'll have the same result for you that it did for them.

For all I know, J*sus did rise from the dead. But if I accept the testimony of his disciples that still doesn't make him the messiah. G-d had already warned Israel in Deuteronomy 13 that if anyone worked miracles as "proof" that Israel should stop observing the Torah they were to pay it no attention whatsoever, because G-d was merely testing them. The miracle can be real, but it's only a test. The Torah does not allow for chr*stianity.

If you cannot agree with me very well. You think you're right and I think I'm right.

Be well.

333 posted on 12/17/2009 7:19:43 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vaya`an Yosef 'et-Par`oh le'mor bil`aday; 'Eloqim ya`aneh 'et-shelom Par`oh.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 326 | View Replies ]


To: Zionist Conspirator
Only meeting the exact criteria of the Torah and Prophets as they themselves describe them makes one the messiah.

I hope the EXACT requirments did not get messed up over the years with all of the re-telling and not writing down!

348 posted on 12/17/2009 8:42:26 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 333 | View Replies ]

To: Zionist Conspirator
G-d had already warned Israel in Deuteronomy 13 that if anyone worked miracles as "proof" that Israel should stop observing the Torah they were to pay it no attention whatsoever, because G-d was merely testing them.

Here it is - to what are you referring?


Deuteronomy 13

 1If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

 2And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

 3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

 4Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

 5And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

 6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

 12If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,

 13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

 16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

 17And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;

 18When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.


351 posted on 12/17/2009 8:46:08 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 333 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson