Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: B-Chan

Mary - perpetual virgin?

 

The truth is often offensive.


Douay-Rheims Bible             And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
 
King James Bible               And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
 
American King James Version    And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
 
American Standard Version      and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.
 
Bible in Basic English         And he had no connection with her till she had given birth to a son; and he gave him the name Jesus.
 
Darby Bible Translation        and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
 
English Revised Version        and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.
 
Webster's Bible Translation    And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: and he called his name JESUS.
 
New International Version      But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
 
New Living Translation         But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.
 
New American Standard Bible    but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
 
International Standard Version He did not have marital relations with her until she had given birth to a son; and he named him Jesus.
 

Yup...
 
 
 

187 posted on 12/17/2009 5:48:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies ]


To: Elsie
We can know that Our Lady remained virgin during and after the birth of our Lord by the Tradition of the Church, which includes Scripture and the Church's teaching Magisterium.

First: the word "till" (or "until") does not mean what you claim it to mean here. It describes what happened up to the time of Christ's birth, not what happened after that. We know this because it is used elsewhere in Scripture in this way. For example, in 2 Samuel 6:23, we read that "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death." Now, unless you believe that Michal had children after her death, you have to admit to "till/until" can mean something other than what you claim.

Second: The Church teaches and has always held that Our Lady remained a virgin after the birth of our Lord. This teaching was handed down to us orally and in writing by those who knew the Apostles personally, for example in the Protoevangelium of James, which was written around A.D. 120. Our Lady's perpetual virginity was also taught by the great Fathers and Saints, including Hilary of Poitiers, Athanasius, Epiphanius of Salamis, Jerome, Didymus the Blind, Ambrose of Milan, Augustine, Cyril of Alexandria, and many others. Even the arch-heretics Martin Luther and Ulrich Zwingli held Mary to be perpetually virgin, and those among the early Protestants who did not explicitly teach this nevertheless remained open to it. Calvin, for example, wrote

"Let us rest satisfied with this, that no just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words of the Evangelist, as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called first-born; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin. It is said that Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: but this is limited to that very time. What took place afterwards, the historian does not inform us. Such is well known to have been the practice of the inspired writers. Certainly, no man will ever raise a question on this subject, except from curiosity; and no man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation" 1.
To sum up: the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is fundamental to orthodox Christian belief. Those who choose to reject it stray from that belief.
192 posted on 12/17/2009 7:52:22 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies ]

To: Elsie

But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

- - - - - - - - -
That is the verse that kept getting me in trouble with the nuns at Catholic school.

Poor Sr. Josephine....had a nervous breakdown middle of the year.


197 posted on 12/17/2009 8:28:10 AM PST by reaganaut (ex-Mormon now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies ]

To: Elsie
Douay-Rheims Bible And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Now, now...That's just your private interpretation...Til does not mean til and firstborn does not mean firstborn...But yet son means son, name means name, and and means and...

It's like comedy central...Mary has to be sinless...Scriptural??? Of course not...But then you have to eliminate Jesus brothers and sisters, which IS scriptural...You have to eliminate Joseph consummating their marriage which is scriptural to keep Mary an unbiblical virgin...

223 posted on 12/17/2009 10:27:19 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson