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To: daniel1212
That is almost cruel considering the evidence. If Rome's claims for such were subject to FDA scrutiny they would be fined for false advertising, as you yourself must know that the vast majority of Catholic souls who were baptized, and partake of the Eucharist, show little if any of the promised effect. Areas where baptized Catholics abound are actually the most liberal, but when such become born again we overall see very different results. Around here, baptized Catholic school kids are among the most indifferent to the gospel.

You know, I really do understand how and why you can think this way. However, I do think there is something fundamental that you are overlooking. That is, all the rapturous joy one feels by "knowing the Lord" through filling ones head with hours of scriptural argumentation is ultimately nothing but vanity if God doesn't agree.

After all, wasn't that the real sin of the Jewish leadership of Christ's time? They were so convinced they knew God's will from pouring over the law that they scorned God when he showed up to correct them.

The question you have to ask yourself is "if God showed up to correct you, would you recognize it?" What if you are actually mistaken in thinking "The word of God" is the same thing as the Bible, and every time that Word of God is mentioned it means the Bible?

It's not a preposterous question. At Christ's dedication in the opening of Luke's gospel we see the Holy Spirit claim through Simeon that it was God's word that informed him he would not see death before beholding the Christ. So unless someone can find a personal prophesy to Simeon in the OT, the Holy Spirit is telling us "God's Word" is something more than the Bible alone.

So I submit to you "knowing God" is not the number of Bible verses you can cleverly concatenate to form a "doctrine," but the relationship with Christ that sets one free from the body of this death as Paul called it in Romans 7. That is, the ability to stand firm against that which you would not do, but do anyway.

At this point it is important not to confuse this with "turning your life around" by breaking free of things that obviously damage like addictions. Pagans do these things everyday. While such things are difficult, people overcome them all the time with nothing more than steely resolve.

What I'm referring to is sin that others don't even recognize; those dark parts of who you are that you are utterly powerless against.

I've spent more than enough time being told to "trust Jesus" (in fact, more than twenty years) only to find that trust was no more important than the stone is to making stone soup. I could argue from the Bible for days on how "saved" I was knowing full well there was absolutely no real internal difference between me and the next guy beside the claims I made predicated on the Bible.

Jesus came to give life, not confidence.

So while I can indeed vouch for the zeal of many "saved" Christians, it is often nothing more than another form of the vanity spoken of in Ecclesiastes.

So at some point, in pouring out one's heart before the Lord, and repenting yet again for that same thing, the "saved" need to recognize they are NOT being helped, and the reason is because they are NOT doing what they were told. And like it or not, doing what you're told is NOT relying on a "work" just because someone waving a Bible says so.

On that day many will say "Lord, Lord, did we not...etc." Doesn't that verse sound like they were geniunely shocked to hear "I never knew you?"

So what is it I say you need to "do?" Learn to tell, no matter how well reasoned your arguments, no matter how deep you conviction, no matter how much time you spend in Church or pouring over the Bible...learn to tell when God is ignoring you.

90 posted on 12/18/2009 5:45:13 AM PST by papertyger (Representation without taxation is tyranny!)
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To: papertyger

Your response is both insolent and inaccurate, and also shows a superficial reading of my posts, and manifests another example of the Scripturally deficient state of Roman apologetics, and a superficiality and deception which is consistent with being led and promoted by men over God, more of which should not be encouraged here.


91 posted on 12/19/2009 6:32:10 AM PST by daniel1212 (and there is no new thing under the sun. Eccl. 4:9)
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