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To: Mr Rogers
So if you have ever hungered or been thirsty, either you haven’t come to Jesus OR He was using a metaphor.

Unless "hunger and thirst" is the metaphor...

As for ‘born again’ being essential, that is determined by Jesus Christ. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” .... Sounds pretty essential to me.

And

Verily, verily, I say to you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54]  Whoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
doesn't?
35 posted on 12/10/2009 11:31:48 PM PST by papertyger (Representation without taxation is tyranny!)
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To: papertyger

Okay papertyger,

“hunger and thirst”

Let’s see where else the words “hunger and thirst” are used in the Bible.

do you “HUNGER and THIRST for righteousness?” (Matthew 5:6)
are you “POOR in SPIRIT?” (Matthew 5:3)

Is righteousness actual “food?” No. But we are still to hunger for it.
Does poverty in spirit necessarily mean you live in a 3rd world country? No. But we are still called to be poor.

What are you hungering and thirsting for? CHRIST and the cleansing blood he shed for us on the Cross?
or wafers and liquor?

What would you do if you ran out of wafers and liquor? How will your “hunger and thirst” be satisfied?


36 posted on 12/10/2009 11:38:53 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege ("When I survey the wondrous cross...")
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To: papertyger

“Born again” is a metaphor. You are not expected to physically be born again.

“Eat my flesh” is a metaphor. You are not expected to physically eat his flesh.

“Hunger and thirst” are metaphors for desiring God.

After all, the entire passage in John 6 starts “26Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves [feeding of the 5000] and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

In 1 Corinthians, Paul discusses the Eucharist in conjunction with eating food sacrificed to idols.

“15I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. 18Consider the people of Israel: are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.”

One the one hand, he says food sacrificed to idols isn’t really significant, in itself - see verse 19-20, also 27. However, those who eat it identify themselves with idolatry, which is to identify themselves with demons.

I don’t see any sign that Paul believed in ‘real presence’ for demons - he specifically denies it. For Paul, it is identifying oneself, before God and man, with either the idol or Christ.

It is a public proclamation of who you follow...”For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.”

I’ll admit, I’m bewildered that it is even possible to have a conversation like this with an adult. If you read the scripture for teaching, it is plain. If Columbus held up an apple and said, “This is the earth, we will sail around it”, would anyone think Columbus meant the earth was really present in the apple?


43 posted on 12/11/2009 4:54:51 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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