Posted on 12/08/2009 11:41:52 AM PST by Gamecock
ahhhhh
but many RC’s DO have a list of reasons to lie to themselves and others about such . . . to walk in intense denial about such . . . just as folks in all RELIGIONS do, including Protestants.
Ha, in other words, don't pay any attention to what you see, what we do or what you hear...It looks like worship, it quacks like worship, it walks like worship but you just don't understand because you do not have mastery over the Trivial arts, grammar, logic, and rhetoric like we do...
Yep, poor ole simple Protestants just don't understand that asking Mary to provide grace and salvation isn't worship...
“What is it that constitutes worship to Mary which is different than what most of you do???”
Believing that Mary is divine and worshipping her!!!
...Freegards!!!
Ahhhhh . . . I didn’t realize that you had interviewed all 1.x billion RC’s for at least an hour and administerd a battery of quality instruments to determine such a thing.
Very impressive.
chicken or egg?: If I understand congruent merit correctly first comes the effort and then comes the grace.
That old Romanist saying: God helps those who help themselves.
Well put.
Catholics don’t worship Mary. You can tell by the lack of Catholics saying they worship Mary. Catholics are not quiet about what they believe, they will tell you. We even have Catholics on FR who don’t recognize the current Pope. How come they admit that?
Freegards
My point was he says grew up as a Catholic in a Catholic home and his parents and relatives were all practicing Catholics. If that were true he would have referred to himself as a Catholic not a “Roman Catholic”.
That means his story is probably fake.
He also talked about “Mary Worship” a weird term no one familiar with being a Catholic would use.
He also said that after attending the funeral of his aunt his main concern was not his love for her or his memories of her but criticizing her because she remained in the Catholic faith. This also struck me as weird.
There are many people who convert from Catholicism to other religions. That is their personal choice.
I just don't think this story is authentic.
As to poster #2, he was refuting the argument. It sounded like he was just throwing his own words back at him.
I have no idea what you are talking about when you say Catholics play word games but I do not wish to argue about about religion.
My faith is very important to me. Please respect that. Please let us love each other as our savior taught.
You say that but there is a written historical record of your popes denying any such thing...
At some point in time you guys have to reconcile these two opposing positions in regard to your dogma because you come off looking pretty goofy otherwise...
Your popes have on countless occasions claimed that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church...
So, in other words, you're saying that as as long as a poster says "they" and "them," and hides behind pronouns, and never has the courage to spell out exactly who "they" and "them" are, he can say anything he wants about anyone?
Maybe that's what the RM thinks. What does God think?
Your the one saying Catholics worship Mary. I’m saying they don’t because they would say they would. Why wouldn’t they?
Freegards
It would be worship if it were asking Mary to "provide grace and salvation" independent of God, instead of asking Mary to ask God for grace and salvation on my behalf.
"Iscool, pray for me to God that I may be a better and more loving Christian disciple"
There. I just "worshipped" you. Do you feel particularly more divine?
(BTW, my request is not tongue in cheek at all.)
“It seemed like the facts of the post fit a different postulation.”
To which post are you referring?
sitetest
There isn't. Period. Full stop.
There is no Baptist church in heaven, no Presbyterian church in heaven, no SDA church in heaven. There is one, universal church in heaven. If you say it in Greek, it's "katolikos", "catholic".
The relationship of that church to the organization with offices on Vatican hill in Rome is something to debate, but not the proposition that there is no salvation outside the universal church, the ekklesia katolika, founded by Christ.
If you are to be saved (and I hope you are), you will be incorporated into the Catholic church somehow. It may happen in some mysterious way that only God understands and that I couldn't explain to you if I tried, but it will happen.
And if I'm wrong and I still need to be, I hope God gives me that grace also.
God has declared and decreed that folks are to Love Him
super supremely above and beyond all else in thought, feelings, deeds . . . that there be no doubt . . .
I’m not surprised to observe on occasion that some RC’s behave as though they are “prissier than thou’
. . . beyond the RM and beyond God on matters of RULES.
The !!!!TRADITIONS!!!! of men bound, fossilized Vatican institution RELIGION is the paragon example of such prissiness. However, plenty of Protestant orgs are following close behind.
I think those words may have gotten a bit tangled in that post.
Nevertheless, IN-GROUP social and psychological pressures are a sufficient explanation.
Self-righteousness is another.
Having a SYSTEM of rituals and rules one can feel some level of HUMAN !!!!CONTROL!!!! over is another.
There’s a long list of others.
I don’t plan to list them.
The Lord can illuminate those seriously interested in the truth.
"In exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the universal Church, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which, therefore, perform their duties in his name and with his authority for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors."
The description of your "Holy Father":
"The Roman Pontiff, as the successor of Peter, is the perpetual and visible principle and foundation of unity of both the bishops and of the faithful."
I see the phrase "Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae" all over the Vatican's site. That's Latin for "Holy ROMAN Church."
It really is tiring trying to have a conversation with Roman Catholics, who keep trying to squirm away from the truths about their denomination. You speak of "come home to Rome" and publish books like "The Path to Rome" and "Home Sweet Rome," and then claim that there's nothing Roman about your church. Why not embrace the truth that your church finds its home in Rome, when it's so evident that its leaders consider its home to be in Rome?
So....Matt 28:19 is not in your Bible?
Supposedly, we have the strange case of alleged adherents of an alleged "goddess" denying that she is, in fact, a "goddess" at all.
"Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. Let it be done unto me according to thy word"
Ouch, I just quoted my alleged "goddess" that I supposedly "worship" saying she's just God's servant and wants to do his will. Is she going to be mad about being reminded of that?
But maybe I'm not part of the "they" to whom Quix refers. Am I, Quix? Am I in denial, do I have psychiatric issues, do I have a mommy complex?
Speak up. Where do "they" live? Who are "they"?
It’s not really that important.
I feel clear enough with you.
It’s a tweaky thread from the git-go. And it just struck me that there seemed to be a disconnect somehow.
No biggy.
Have a blessed Christmas.
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