[Colofornian]

From the commentary: For members who were unaware of the seer stone in the hat, at least two questions or concerns may arise: 1) Is it strange that Joseph used a stone in a hat? 2) Why have we have always been told that Joseph used the Urim and Thummim?

Oh sure. An angel led Smith to some gold plates. Which were totally irrelevant 'cause Smith never read them in his supposed "translation" of the Book of Mormon. (And even had he read them, he knew not the language!)

So why bother leading this pimply-faced teen-ager to some "gold plates" that were never retained? What good were they if all Smith needed was a rock stuck in a hat to begin with? Irrelevant. Useless. A 100% waste of the supposed time Nephi took to carve them out. 'Cause nobody's actually accessed them for any real direct "translation."

Why is this simple concept so complicated for Mormons to understand?

Also, what purpose did this hat serve?
Have the Mormons retained it as a sacred relic?
Where's the urim & thummim?
Conveniently gone as well?
Did it run out of its 19th-century "batteries"?

[doc1019]

Some Mormons may not understand Joseph's translation process

And a whole world full of non-Mormons as well. ;-)

[mgstarr]

Romney for President...... Oh, nevermind.

[Tennessee Nana]

Some Mormons may not understand Joseph’s translation process
_______________________________________________________

OK Nana will teach the little grasshoppers...

Children for this project we need the following items:

1 table
1 chair
1 stove top hat
1 rock
1 human head

Instructions:

Place the hat on the desk.
Place the rock in the hat.
Place the chair beside the table and sit in it.
Place your face in the hat until you cannot see any light.
No peeking.

Write a papragraph explaining why a grown man would do such a dumb thing and think he could fool other people into thinking he was translating from Reformed Egyptian.

[RobRoy]

>>Some Mormons may not understand Joseph’s translation process<<

I’ll say they don’t. And when they finally do, they join ex-mormons for Jesus.

[Alex Murphy]

For members who were unaware of the seer stone in the hat, at least two questions or concerns may arise: 1) Is it strange that Joseph used a stone in a hat? 2) Why have we have always been told that Joseph used the Urim and Thummim?

[sirchtruth]

It's hard to find this level of B.S. about someone else's B.S.!

For heavens sakes, get a clue you dupped cult worshipers!

[sirchtruth]

It's hard to find this level of B.S. about someone else's B.S.!

For heavens sakes, get a clue you duped cult worshipers!

[lurk]

Most Mormons don’t know about the stone in the hat. If you told them, they’d tell you you were crackers or lying.

The real problem that the hat translation presents is in the finished product of the Book of Mormon. If the stone only gave a new sentence after Oliver wrote it down word and punctuation perfect, then why have there been 3915 changes in the BOM(not including spelling and punctuation) since the 1830 edition?

[beebuster2000]

say what you want about the hat, the stone, etc etc.

personally, i dont find that stuff any more or less believable than sacred things in other religions.

i read a biography about joseph smith recently and he was an amazing guy. read about the cities he built out of nothing and the society he created. he started with nothing in the middle of nowhere in upstate new york.

say what you want, the guy had it going on , no question.

[beebuster2000]

havent read it, but apparantly the bible itelf contains reference to the stones:

1 Samuel 14:41 — in the Books of Samuel is regarded by biblical scholars as key to understanding the Urim and Thummim[

[Nosterrex]

The presupposition is that Smith was actually receiving direct revelations from God. Anyone can claim that God is speaking to them. The insane asylums of full of such people. I have heard of a cat in a hat, but a rock in the hat has that beat. It seems that the sillier a cult becomes the more nuts it attracts. How any sane person could believe this manure is beyond me. It makes about as much sense as Scientology.

[Safrguns]

>>> The Lord utilized Joseph’s worldview to help restore the gospel.

I found this particularly interesting....
that God would use a “worldview” to do His divine will.
Anyone who has read the bible enough, understands that “worldview” is down right EVIL.... it is Anti-God... because the “worldview” is Satan’s view... which he spreads by any and every means possible.

This is very much like saying that God asked Satan to give Him a hand in helping Joseph Smith restore something that supposedly Satan himself had a direct hand in defeating in the first place. How much sense does that make???

What is a “Seer” stone anyway???

Well, it is an instrument of witchcraft....
Since when did God EVER “use” or empower an inanimate object to reveal anything to mankind??? HE NEVER DID!
Fact of the matter is that Joseph Smith is THE ONLY ONE who claimed that he was receiving revelation from God by way of an object normally used for unholy divination...

Not to mention the fact that Joseph Smith used the same process to find buried treasure... for which he was conveniently paid for by his farmer clients up-front.
This so-called process was a fraudulent means by which he tricked gullible farmers out of money... And to think that God would use that “world view” for something Holy and inspired???? Come on!... this would be like me trying to sell a cure for cancer made from tobacco products!

It is astounding to me that such an obvious ploy can successfully be passed off as an act of God.
Sometimes I think cult leaders like JS come up with ridiculous stuff like that just for the fun of it to see how duped their followers really are.

Oh... and to compare Smith’s translation process to the miracles of Jesus just takes the cake...
That’s really good... If they think it’s strange, just blame Jesus... as if nothing is strange or suspicious compared to the miracles of Jesus.

[reaganaut]

For those who believe that God can and has communicated with mankind, it seems hypocritical to summarily dismiss Joseph’s method of translation because it doesn’t fit with pre-conceived views of how God communicates. As with all spiritual claims, the only way to know if they come from God is to ask God for a witness.

- - - - - - - -
They are forgetting the other option. Using our brains to see the inconsistencies between the Bible and BoM.

The “method” of JS’s “translation” of the BoM changed over time. First it was the hat, then it was the spectacles, then it was with the plates, then without anything.

*Sigh*

[irishtenor]

***Is it strange that a man could rise from the dead, walk on water, heal the lame, create the heavens, and answer the prayers of billions of people?***

For a man to do this? Yes, extremely strange, in fact impossible. For God to do it? Not strange, or impossible.

However, does that mean you are equating Joseph Smith with Jesus?

[Tainan]

I'm looking for the logic in that article....nope, can't find it...still looking.

I'm also guessing that the "Joseph" mentioned is not the Joseph of Mary & Joseph fame. Joe Smith I presume.

[dalebert]

what do mormons really think about this?

[Godzilla]

Some Mormons may not understand Joseph's translation process

Some mormons don't understand that the translation process should not have lead to over 4000 changes to the bom over the years. David Whitmer and Martin Harris (two of the three Book of Mormon witnesses) described an "iron-clad" control of the translation process, claiming that the actual text was given word-for-word from God himself. In spite of their observations, however, recent research by Royal Skousen at Brigham Young University has proven that there were a few errors on the original manuscript due to transcription mistakes (such as writing the word "and" instead of the phonetically similar word "an"). Therefore, all textual errors beyond those (such as the ambiguities, anachronisms, and grammatical errors) ought to be problematic to those who believe, as Whitmer and Harris did, that the original text of the Book of Mormon came directly from God.

Mormon Historian B. H. Roberts has already stated that the first edition of the Book of Mormon was "singularly free from typographical errors" and that the printer could not be blamed for the many mistakes that are found in the Book of Mormon:

"That errors of grammar and faults in dictation do exist in the Book of Mormon (and more especially and abundantly in the first edition) must be conceded; and what is more, while some of the errors may be referred to inefficient proof-reading, such as is to be expected in a country printing establishment, yet such is the nature of the errors in question, and so interwoven are they throughout the diction of the Book, that they may not be disposed of by saying they result from inefficient proof-reading or referring them to the mischievous disposition of the 'typos' or the unfriendliness of the publishing house. The errors are constitutional in their character; they are of the web and woof of the style, and not such errors as may be classed as typographical. Indeed, the first edition of the Book of Mormon is SINGULARLY FREE FROM TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS." (Defense of the Faith, by B. H. Roberts, pp. 280-281; reprinted in A New Witness For Christ in America, by Francis W. Kirkham, Vol. 1, pp. 200-201)

More attestation to the accuracy of the initial translation is found here: "... we heard a voice from out of the bright light above us, saying, 'These plates have been revealed by the power of God, and they have been translated by the power of God. The translation of them which you have seen is correct, and I command you to bear record of what you now see and hear.'" (History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Vol. 1, pp. 54-55)

Yet, inspite of the power of God, 4000+ changes have been made to the bom.

[CondoleezzaProtege]

“Not one piece of evidence has ever been found to support the Book of Mormon -- not a trace of the large cities it names, no ruins, no coins, no letters or documents or monuments, nothing in writing. Not even one of the rivers or mountains or any of the topography it mentions has ever been identified.” (Dave Hunt, p.156, In Defense of the Faith; also see p. 107 in The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel). Nothing which demonstrates that the Book of Mormon is anything other than an early nineteeth century piece of American fiction, invented by Joseph Smith has ever been found. *** The National Geographic Society stated on August 12, 1998, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere's past, and the Society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.” The Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C. has also verified this utter lack of evidence saying in 1996 when they said, “The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian Archaeologists see no connection between the archaeology of the New World and the subject matter of the Book.” ~ Charlie H. Campbell