Posted on 11/30/2009 6:01:03 PM PST by delacoert
I’ll just leave this here…
Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.
In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:
“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”
Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”
If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.
We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.
When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?
As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.
I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.
Oh I understood it alright. I understood that I if I worked my tail off and obeyed without question everything that came down from SLC I was going to get the "right" to become a god over my own planet, have concubines that I would keep eternally pregnant, pushing out spirit babies, etc.
Again, EVERYTHING related to mormonism is predicated upon the belief that JS was truthful, honest, chaste, etc. Which we know for fact is incorrect. He was far from it. He was the antithesis of those morals and that is what brings the house of cards called mormonism down.
I do not believe in JS. A prophet of God would not have behaved as he did. He and the subsequent "prophets" behaved like highwaymen. Not prophets.
SZ
Ping to 741, thanks for your ping.
SZ
you are the one lost
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No Resty. I have been found. Much to my (still) amazement, Jesus pulled me out of the darkness and into His light, even while I was still rebelling by trying to “work” my way to Heaven.
I didn’t even realize I was in darkness (much like you) until He pulled me out.
And Godzilla is quite correct. I know exactly where I am and where I am going. Can you say the same?
Can you honestly say, that if you were to die tonight, you would go back into the presence of Heavenly Father (CK)? No “I hope so”, no “I would like to think”, but KNOW for a 100 percent surety that you would go into God’s presence and be acceptable to him.
It is often misunderstood when Christians say “I know I am saved”. This isn’t arrogance, it is trust. When we say we “know” we are not speaking of a head knowledge, but rather testifying of our faith in the promises God made through Jesus to save us if we but believe on His sacrifice on our behalf.
A prophet of God would not have behaved as he did. He and the subsequent “prophets” behaved like highwaymen. Not prophets.
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Dead on, SZ.
The “fruits” of JS:
polygamy
polyandry
adultery
the “Kirtland bank” fiasco
murder (the 2 he killed in the gunfight)
breakup of families
violation of free speech
his own “kingdom” and army
having sex with underage girls (Fanny alger, IIRC, was only 14)
declaring himself better than Jesus Christ
Oh yeah, that is exactly how prophets behave.
As Resty said:No, there is a great gulf fixed between the reprobate and the child of God.”
That there is and JS was a reprobate.
“The scriptures describe the behavior of the reprobate mind which is very prevalent in these daily attacks on another religion.”
___________________________________________________________
So you admit that Mormonism is another religion and NOT Christianity!
Excellent! Admitting that you have a problem is the first step toward recovery. Actually, it’s admitting that you are powerless over the problem - the second step is believing in a Power greater than yourself. Since Mormons only believe in gods of longer seniority, not greater authority, than themselves, this second step may be as difficult to take as the first, but we believe that the Lord will help you through this one, too! I’m so happy to see your progress; may God save and bless you!
He is way better than Obama (a communist of the first order). I agree his abortion talk is a little unsettling. How do you get elected governor in MA? He brings way too much baggage from that state to the national discussion. I think he is a terrific administrator but the abortion and the Romneycare baggage is way too much to bring to the Republican nomination process. I think he is toast. Being a Mormon is a plus because we hold the USA in high regard, but he sullied the brand with his liberal abortion stances as does Old Harry Reid (our biggest embarrassment).
He is way better than Obama (a communist of the first order). I agree his abortion talk is a little unsettling. How do you get elected governor in MA? He brings way too much baggage from that state to the national discussion. I think he is a terrific administrator but the abortion and the Romneycare baggage is way too much to bring to the Republican nomination process. I think he is toast. Being a Mormon is a plus because we hold the USA in high regard, but he sullied the brand with his liberal abortion stances as does Old Harry Reid (our biggest embarrassment).
Reprobate mind - like that of Joseph Smith? He makes Tiger Woods look like a rookie philanderer. Any time he was able to get emma out of the house, he kept his bed warm with any one of about 30+ other women. All the while making it doctrine that lds practice monogamy - as he beds wives of other men and young teenagers.
Joseph Smith and his rampant sexual misbehavior
wickedness,
Deceiving people for years, first with treasure seeking then with false religion
covetousness
Kirkland bank fraud, taking from his followers as well as coveting his neighbors wives and daughters
maliciousness, . . deceit, malignity;
He knew the bom to be false - proved it when he tried to sell the copyrite to it. He hounded former members, driving them off of their lands to place true 'believers' on it. Or how about his illegal order to have the Nauvoo Expositor to be destroyed and its owners run out of town for their lives?
murder
Like the two he murdered with the smuggled gun.
proud, boasters,
Smith claimed to be greater than even Jesus Christ and that nothing could strike him down.
inventors of evil things,
bom, book of abraham, D&C, polygamy, racism, Danites, Kirkland bank.
No, there is a great gulf fixed between the reprobate and the child of God.
Yes there is and God still offers freedom to you to come out from among them.
Joseph Smith did not do anything the Lord did not ask Him to do you got a problem take it up with the Lord.
Not one mainstream Church is as unitfied world wide as the practcing LDS and the reason is we are unified with Lord doctrine, not the variations of the Tradition of Men.
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What Tiger did was disappointing to those who respected him why we all ask but I am sure it is some issues with in himself he has not come to terms with yet.
None really knows why but I do know Tiger needs to find out why he sabotage himself.
Oh, so the Lord now is into adultery, illegal destruction of property, lying out one's wazoo in a court, hitting up young teens. I don't have to take it up with the Lord, He was pretty clear in the bible verses you provided condemning smith.
Not one mainstream Church is as unitfied world wide as the practcing LDS and the reason is we are unified with Lord doctrine, not the variations of the Tradition of Men.
Tell that you your FLDS, RLDS (coc), and a hundred or so other of your 'brethern'
None really knows why but I do know Tiger needs to find out why he sabotage himself.
Yet if he were a mormon in the 1850s, his actions would have been not only condoned, but encouraged.
Gainsayers specialty is doing play on words.
They are also confused with imitators or wantabees.
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None really knows why but I do know Tiger needs to find out why he sabotage himself.
Yet if he were a mormon in the 1850s, his actions would have been not only condoned, but encouraged.
***
...again using someone elses pain to for their own gain thinking they are scorning points.
I think there is good in Tiger and there might be another caused for this behavior of his besides the flesh.
I pray he gets help!
Oh, I'm not confused by smith and the prophets and seers since. I know they are false.
Not what I witness daily from so many here who have a need to vent on JS and the Church to compensation for the short comings in antis life!
If there was joy in the antis life this daily rant would surely not be part of a sunshine day!
If you looked into your seer stone to discern what my thoughts and feelings are - you need to send it back and get your money back. There is joy in my life, I only want to have you leave mormonism and enjoy true joy and not fret about whether or not you are worthy enough to be let into heaven.
If there is so much joy in you life than why are you engaging in being ornery?
Unless being ornery is what brings you joy!
Onrey, really now resty. Why live in bitter darkness when you can walk with the real Lord? Can you say that you are perfect enough to be allowed into heavenly father's presence if you were to die right now? Any bit of sin will deny you any joy.
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