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Nephew is an avid reader and a devotee of history, especially ancient roman history. He feels that there are too many inconsistencies in scripture for it to be accurate, and that he is leaning toward agnostisism. I would love to know if any of you have done apologetics work in this area (science and religion,creatonism, etc), and what books you could recommend on the issue. I have not studied agnostic apologetics as there was never a need in my circle to do so until now.
1 posted on 11/18/2009 3:36:46 PM PST by wombtotomb
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To: wombtotomb
If you nephew uses the Internet, send him to Francis Collins' The Language of God, on Youtube. There is a nine part presentation. Another useful presentation is by Hugh Ross, Astrophysicist/Pastor.

You might recommend www.reasons.org website to your nephew. Be Thinking. org is another interesting site which tries to balance sceince and faith issues.

27 posted on 11/18/2009 4:37:08 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: wombtotomb
Nip this in the bud with something chewy but fun, biblical but scientific. I highly recommend In the Beginning Was Information: A Scientist Explains the Incredible Design in Nature by Dr Werner Gitt.

They are available for only about $9 plus shipping on Amazon.com.

This is the information age. How in the world did chance add information and order to DNA and the structure of "evolving" life? And here we are trying to instill artificial intelligence into computers/robots.

The first law of thermodynamics (energy/matter cannot be created) has application in the field of Information Theory.

Easy to read and understand. Presented at a good pace. Compelling and persuasive.

28 posted on 11/18/2009 4:41:09 PM PST by txnuke (Obama votes "PRES__ENT" because he has no ID.)
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To: wombtotomb

Try “Fundamentals of the Faith” by Peter Kreeft. This is a good beginner’s introduction to Aquinas, with many apologetics as well.


30 posted on 11/18/2009 4:43:46 PM PST by GrannyML
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To: wombtotomb
From the forward to a book titled 'That's In The Bible?', hopefully coming our sooner rather than later.

[[ We of Western heritage have trouble with paradoxical perspectives. On the one hand, life we live with the human senses and our abilities to manipulate our environment and make servant machines to do for us, we think that this is the pinnacle of what it means to be alive, to be freed from effort. Paradoxically, we are living in a well of spacetime, which is a 'limits factory' rather than a freeing experience. Limits make for variation in theme and expression.

The laws of Physics define our reality but they also function as limits to how much we can know of ’it all’. By ’all’ we refer to the total package, body, soul, and spirit, and our interaction with the universe of realms in which these aspects of our being have reality. But without those limits imposed from the start, a range of expression that yields a Stephen Hawking and a Mozart but also an average guy ‘me’ or you would not be possible.

In a very practical sense, the big bang of creation has had several stages of emergent phenomena, reaching a point of Stephen Hawking emerging from the background states. The complexity of Hawking’s mind in contemplating the universe is far more than the sum of the chemical reactions occurring in the organ filling his skull. Hawking’s mind is a soulish quality far beyond the physical organ of his brain, yet utilizing his physical brain.

Spirit LIFE is less restricted than our spacetime senses, yet we have so little tangible evidence of this level of reality. By our modern standards reality is of course derived from our manipulations of spacetime.

We have the biblical stories of One who came to this limits well and lived and died and rose again from the dead, to occupy a physical body capable of 'beyondness' to these limits. He appeared inside a locked room thus it would appear by some means passing invisibly through solid walls then to suddenly appear. In the Old Testament we have the scene of a hand appearing, to write upon a wall, while the remainder of the being to which the hand was attached remained in a state of reality outside the sensing of the people in the room. It is Catholic belief that Jesus was conceived and born by some means which allowed Mary to remain a virgin. The resurrection story indicates that when the seal on the tomb was broken and the stone rolled back, the tomb was empty except for grave clothes still in the fashion as if wrapped around a body, but collapsed ... Christ left the grave clothes without unwrapping them and left the chamber through solid rock; the stone was subsequently rolled away to show the women seeking his body --to anoint it with oils and spices-- that the tomb was empty!

It is a seeming mystery that God is greater than the creation yet can inhabit the creation and move freely in and out of the limits well. And even more paradoxical, this Creator actually tells us He desires to commune with us, with we created beings! I have wondered how many scientists actually consider that God ‘thought’ of occupying a human body even prior to space and time and matter being expressed, then the whole of the creation went through a billions-of-years evolutionary process drawn toward the goal God had in bringing it all into being? Not many I would suspect. Christians ought not shy away from considering such a thing.

When we think of power, we conceive of the authority to order others about, or we think of the ability to plug into sources to do work our animal self cannot achieve as quickly without mechanical assistance. But there is a power which seems to wisp about as if mere breeze, a thing that seems as tenuous as a thought. Yet this power is greater than all the forces of the limits well we inhabit. This book will explore some of the weird scenes in the Bible ... weird from a science-only mindset. We will seek to stretch our minds to encompass occurrences having no easy scientific explanation but which may be about to have such a means to explain them, as the cutting edges of Physics and cosmology extend our comprehension of the universe. In the end we will connect a story in Daniel to the empty tomb in Jerusalem on resurrection morning.

One quick note on the Bible of Judeo-Christian heritage which we will be holding up as our standard for veracity, our source of material related from witnesses:
The Hebrew Bible, in particular the Torah (The Five Books of Moses), has done more to civilize the world than any other book or idea in history. It is the Hebrew Bible that gave humanity such ideas as a universal, moral, loving God; ethical obligations to this God; the need for history to move forward to moral and spiritual redemption; the belief that history has meaning; and the notion that human freedom and social justice are the divinely desired states for all people. It gave the world the Ten Commandments, ethical monotheism, and the concept of holiness (the goal of raising human beings from the animal-like to the God-like). Therefore, when this Bible makes strong moral proclamations, I listen with great respect. … The Bible speaks in such clear and direct language that one does not have to be a religious fundamentalist in order to be influenced by its views. All that is necessary is to consider oneself a serious Jew or Christian. [Dennis Praeger]

32 posted on 11/18/2009 4:51:00 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: wombtotomb
Your nephew might enjoy Historian Gary Habermas's explanation of the authenticity of the crucifixion and resurrection as presented to a student group at UNC Chapel Hill, IIRC. [[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsrqFmEPUnw Par 1 of 11 parts available on Youtube; an excellent apologetics presentation ]]
33 posted on 11/18/2009 4:57:55 PM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: wombtotomb
Try as you may, but you can't make anyone believe anything.

"Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

God has His ways of turning a man around.

34 posted on 11/18/2009 5:54:19 PM PST by labette ( Humble student of Thinkology)
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To: wombtotomb

35 posted on 11/18/2009 6:15:17 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: wombtotomb

I’d recommend three books, two of which have already been recommended by previous posters:

1. Mere Christianity, by C.S. Lewis. Start here. This book is so engaging and sensible, it is irresistible to all but the most cynical minds. It’s bound to make him hungry to learn more. Lewis wasn’t a Catholic, but Catholics (even young ones) can read it without danger to their Faith.

2. The Handbook of Catholic Apologetics, by Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli (both Catholics). This book is an exhaustive set of arguments for logical and reasonable arguments for the existence of God and for the Catholic Christian Faith.

3. How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, by Thomas E. Wood (mentioned above). This is a very readable and comprehensive book that, if he loves history, he’s bound to enjoy.

Hope that helps.


36 posted on 11/18/2009 6:33:12 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: wombtotomb

My mind has just been completely blown by the concept of agnostic apologetics. Agnosticism means without knowledge, and apologia is an argument in favor of something. So here I am trying to figure out how you argue for that of which you have no knowledge.


37 posted on 11/18/2009 6:49:38 PM PST by CalvaryJohn (What is keeping that damned asteroid?)
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To: wombtotomb

I believe Strobel’s Case for books, The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith are both excellent books which are available in student editions. The Case for a Creator is also good.

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Faith-Student-Lee-Strobel/dp/031024188X

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Student-Lee-Strobel/dp/0310246083/ref=sid_dp_dp

All these books were intellectually instrumental to me on my own search for faith, but they only walk you to the door. Mental ascent to the deity of Christ is not saving faith (James 2:19), as our Lord told Nicodemus (John 3), “you must be born again” Catholics often recoil at the born again thing, but hearing and responding to the Gospel is essential. The clearest gospel I know of can be found here. Listen to “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” and “True and False Conversion” Also many good creation/evolution materials too.

http://www.livingwaters.com/

Will pray for you and your nephew. God bless you for your loving care for him.


41 posted on 11/18/2009 8:36:09 PM PST by daletoons (If you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.)
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To: wombtotomb

I believe Strobel’s Case for books, The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith are both excellent books which are available in student editions. The Case for a Creator is also good.

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Faith-Student-Lee-Strobel/dp/031024188X

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Student-Lee-Strobel/dp/0310246083/ref=sid_dp_dp

All these books were intellectually instrumental to me on my own search for faith, but they only walk you to the door. Mental ascent to the deity of Christ is not saving faith (James 2:19), as our Lord told Nicodemus (John 3), “you must be born again” Catholics often recoil at the born again thing, but hearing and responding to the Gospel is essential. The clearest gospel I know of can be found here. Listen to “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” and “True and False Conversion” Also many good creation/evolution materials too.

http://www.livingwaters.com/

Will pray for you and your nephew. God bless you for your loving care for him.


42 posted on 11/18/2009 8:36:10 PM PST by daletoons (If you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.)
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To: wombtotomb

How about Matthew Kelly’s book, Discovering Catholicism? It covers many subject — science among them.


43 posted on 11/18/2009 8:36:10 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wombtotomb

Many who are scientists, when they start digging, become Catholic. True Catholic. This may happen!


44 posted on 11/18/2009 8:43:59 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wombtotomb

Have him read about the miracle of Our Lady of Guadalupe — a lot of scientists have studied it.

Also Eucharistic miracles like Lanciano. The scientists who study these miracles come up with no explanation about why all the Eucharistic miracles have the same heart tissue and the same blood type present in them. Really fascinating.


45 posted on 11/18/2009 8:46:06 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wombtotomb

The Urantia Book. It will really challenge his thinking. Save the money and look for it in any well stocked library.


46 posted on 11/18/2009 9:02:46 PM PST by concentric circles
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To: wombtotomb
I would suggest a couple of Ratzinger's books;
48 posted on 11/19/2009 3:22:16 AM PST by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: wombtotomb

“A New Look at an Old Earth” by Don Stoner

I really, really, REALLY recommend this book. It’s only 200 pages (plus LOTS of references) and it was this book that convinced me that the Bible was the divine word of G-d and ended ALL conflict (in my heart and mind) between science and Torah.

You must understand, I have always thought as a scientist first, but I’ve always had faith in the existence of G-d. I thought all religion was BS and was nothing more than Man’s pitiful effort to understand something that could never really be understood. Because of the apparent conflicts between Genesis and science, I rejected the Bible in it’s entirety. I did see goodness and wisdom there, but didn’t take any of it literally.

Then I read, “A New Look at an Old Earth.” Stoner breaks down the creation of the Universe from the perspective of a photon of light. He does it scientifically and in a way that I could never deny. He’s NOT an evolutionist and only accepts a literal interpretation of the Bible - but looks at it from a different perspective. He gets into the Hebrew translations from the original text and looks at the physics from a beautiful angle.

For me, this book was the lynch-pin. I couldn’t deny that there was a G-d, He did create the Universe and the Bible is His divinely inspired Word. The concepts this book opened my eyes too were so profound that it changed my perspective of G-d, science, the world and the Bible forever. It showed me that the insights contained in Genesis could only have been conceived of by the Creator of the Universe and can only now be understood by Man.

I’m actually really grateful that you asked this question. I haven’t read this book in 11 years and I think that it’s time for me to give it another go-through. (The first time, I sucked it down in less than three hours. The second time I spent a good week breaking it down and fact-checking his statements.)

You have no idea what a hard heart I had and what it took to get through to me. (It’s actually a minor, personal miracle that I even found and read this book.) Please buy three copies of this book. One for you, one for your nephew and one to share with others as the need arises.

I can’t promise you that you’ll agree with everything in this book (I don’t know what your fundamental beliefs are); but, if there’s any book that can bring a scientific mind back to the Bible, this is it.


49 posted on 11/19/2009 8:13:41 AM PST by Marie (Is there a crack smoking epidemic in the media that I was unaware of? It was TERRORISM!)
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To: wombtotomb
I think this may just fit the bill...


50 posted on 11/19/2009 8:16:13 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: wombtotomb

There are lots of great suggestions in this thread so I won’t attempt to add any, but I’ll say this...

From what you wrote this seems to be the root issue: “He feels that there are too many inconsistencies in scripture for it to be accurate.”

Where is he getting this idea? Frankly, the scriptures are so consistent and accurate that it’s hard not to believe. It seems like I cross paths with someone about twice a year who says they can’t believe because of all the “errors” in the Bible. When asked to point out these “errors” they either can’t or they’ve accepted an explanation for something that claims an error when it’s fairly easy to show that it isn’t.

There are different kinds of apologetics. If you know how he thinks, then point in that direction. For example, if he is all about facts and history, then he must deal with tthe real historical Jesus. If he’s philosophical thinking, then poit him that direction.

Now that I think about it, I would suggest one essay by C.S. Lewis called “Man or Rabbit.”

JW


51 posted on 12/07/2009 8:31:07 AM PST by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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