dizzying placemark
Feel free to enter the talks at any time.
If you get dizzy, feel free to leave at any point.
All points are valid;
and, all points will be discussed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd_ucRdLLf4&NR=1
Posted on 11/14/2009 2:54:59 PM PST by Colofornian
Below is an informative piece by my friend Gary Glenn of the American Family Association of Michigan about the awful decision by the LDS Church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) to support legislation granting legal protections based on homosexuality. Gary of AFA-Michigan writes:
A Shocker from Salt Lake City:
The LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) Church now officially endorses so-called “gay rights” laws, specifically a Salt Lake City law prohibiting “discrimination” on the basis of “sexual orientation” (homosexual behavior) and “gender identity” (cross-dressing).
From the official LDS Church website: http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/church-supports-nondiscrimination-ordinances
ASSOCIATED PRESS: “Mormons throw support behind gay-rights cause”
DESERET NEWS: “Mormon church supports Salt Lake City’s protections for gay rights”
Astoundingly, both the Massachusetts and California supreme courts expressly and specifically cited their states’ identical “sexual orientation” laws regarding employment and housing as a legal justification for their rulings legalizing so-called homosexual “marriage.” That indisputable fact alone renders the Church spokesman’s claim that its endorsement of the “sexual orientation” ordinance poses no threat to marriage to be utter nonsense, especially since the Church’s new position will certainly boost homosexual activists’ ongoing efforts in the Utah Legislature to enact an identical state law.
Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, Goodridge v. Mass. Dept. of Health: “Several amici suggest that prohibiting marriage by same-sex couples reflects community consensus that homosexual conduct is immoral. Yet Massachusetts has a strong affirmative policy of preventing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. See G.L. c. 151B (employment, housing, credit, services); G.L. c. 265, § 39 (hate crimes); G.L. c. 272, § 98 (public accommodation).” Page14 at: Goodridge
California Supreme Court, In Re: Marriage Cases: “See, for example, Civil Code section 51 (barring sexual orientation discrimination in the provision of services by any business establishment); Government Code sections 12920 (barring sexual orientation discrimination in employment), 12955 (barring sexual orientation discrimination in housing)… In light of this recognition, sections 1 and 7 of article I of the California Constitution cannot properly be interpreted to withhold from gay individuals the same basic civil right of personal autonomy and liberty — including the right to establish, with the person of one’s choice, an officially recognized and sanctioned family — that the California Constitution affords to heterosexual individuals.” pp 68-69 at: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov
U.S. House Republican Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, reaffirmed the threat such “sexual orientation” laws pose to marriage in commenting on the federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), legislation which would add “sexual orientation” to federal civil rights laws regarding employment. If enacted, Boehner said, ENDA would “put activist judges in the position of imposing same-sex marriage and civil union laws on states. Simply by using ENDA as the basis of their decisions – just as state Supreme Courts have done with state-level ENDA laws in the past – liberal judges will be empowered under this legislation to single-handedly undermine state and federal marriage laws across the country. I’m disappointed that the Majority turned back a straightforward proposal offered by House Republicans to protect state and federal marriage laws from being overturned, modified, or restricted by activist judges as a result of this deeply flawed legislation.” RepublicanLeader.house.gov
Such laws have also been used to discriminate against and punish individuals and businesses who refuse to approve of homosexual behavior and cross-dressing.
It is difficult to believe that LDS officials could be so grossly ignorant of the demonstrably proven threat such laws pose to marriage and to the religious freedoms of the individual, special exemptions for “religious organizations” and the government notwithstanding. It’s further astounding that church officials would endorse a law banning “discrimination” based on “gender identity,” rendering it illegal for an employer to refuse to hire a man because he (1) dresses as and claims to believe he’s a woman; and (2) demands on that basis to use the women’s restroom at work.
It’s notable in contrast that the Catholic Church refuses to endorse forcing such “sexual orientation” laws on the rest of society just because homosexual activists are politically calculating enough to (at least temporarily) exempt churches. [Editor's Note: in certain areas such as Maine, Catholic bishops or leaders have endorsed homosexual activist laws against the teachings of their Church; such backing in heavily Catholic states usually makes the difference in passage of pro-homosexual legislation.]
From a Vatican directive instructing Catholic bishops to oppose so-called “sexual orientation” laws: “Where a matter of the common good is concerned, it is inappropriate for church authorities to endorse or remain neutral toward adverse legislation even if it grants exceptions to church organizations and institutions. The church has the responsibility to promote family life and the public morality of the entire civil society on the basis of fundamental moral values, not simply to protect herself from the application of harmful laws.” http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFHOMOL.htm
We deeply sympathize with the shock that will no doubt be felt by many members of the LDS Church who do understand the implications of so-called “sexual orientation” laws and have expended great effort to oppose them and to educate others.
For example…
Meridian Magazine / The Place Where Latter-day Saints Gather: “Of course, the problem here is that the term ’sexual orientation’ has no innate meaning (in contrast with ‘race’, which does) and no historic or community value (such as ‘religion’) and would require the Utah State Legislature to fabricate its definition. In other words, adding the term ’sexual orientation’ to Utah law, as demanded (by homosexual activists), would give lawyers standing to attack employers and property owners.” www.ldsmag.com
United Famlies International: “We adamantly oppose the UNHRC sexual orientation provisions for three reasons: 1. Attempts to legalize same sex marriage around the world would be substantially strengthened if homosexual behavior becomes an internationally recognized ‘human right.’” http://unitedfamilies.org
UFI brochure on “Sexual Orientation,” perhaps the best and most comprehensive single source on the subject we’ve ever seen… SexualOrientation
Do they not also wear the garments?
And the SLC group does NOT 'allow' anyone to call the Flds folks MORMON!
Does the LDS have a particular god in charge of labels?
Well, even this pro-gay letter-to-the-editor writer from West Jordan, UT, John Johnson, was able to see through this stated ignorance -- your highlighted second sentence above...(tis better to call it ignorance than a lie -- and since I don't know motive/intent for this, I can't call it a lie):
Johnson wrote: For those Mormons who claim this is a continuation of their church's previous policy, years of documented history say otherwise. And if this was consistent with the LDS Church's previous policies, it wouldn't be headlines around the world, the lead story of evening news programs and being debated on Mormon blogs everywhere.
Gee Resty, don't you just hate it when headlines around the world, lead stories on news programs, open debate on Mormon blogs, and documented history just clashes with your shallow claims?
Oh, BTW, the source for Johnson’s quote was the Salt Lake Trib: http://www.sltrib.com/Opinion/ci_13825259
Does the LDS have a particular god in charge of labels?
"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."
Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)
"Always keep your eye on the President of the church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, even if it is wrong, and you do it, the lord will bless you for it but you don't need to worry. The lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray."
LDS President Marion G. Romney (of the first presidency), quoting LDS President (and prophet) Heber J. Grant "Conference Report" Oct. 1960 p. 78
"The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother's arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p. 289, 1862.
"When the Prophet speaks the debate is over".
N. Eldon Tanner, August Ensign 1979, pages 2-3
"I sat in this tabernacle some years ago as President Joseph Fielding Smith stood at this pulpit. It was the general priesthood meeting of April 1972, the last general conference before President Smith passed away. He said: 'There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, or the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the lord'."
L. Aldin Porter of the Presidency of the First Quorum of Seventies (Ensign, Nov. 1994, p. 63)
"Follow your leaders who have been duly ordained and have been publicly sustained, and you will not be led astray."
Boyd K. Packer (General Conference, Oct. 1992; Ensign, Nov. 1992)
"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray."
President Wilford Woodruff (considered scripture as it is canonized at the end of the D&C)
Nice. Some companies have vice presidents in charge of janitorial services, groundskeeping, and cafeteria menus. The LDS has a god in charge of labels. I wonder if he checks anything else...
What part of the commandment “Love One Another” don’t you understand?
The Savior taught a much higher concept, that of love. “Love thy neighbor,” He admonished. [13] Jesus loved the sinner even while decrying the sin, as evidenced in the case of the woman taken in adultery: treating her kindly, but exhorting her to “sin no more.” [14] Tolerance as a gospel principle means love and forgiveness of one another, not “tolerating” transgression.
In today’s secular world, the idea of tolerance has come to mean something entirely different. Instead of love, it has come to mean condone – acceptance of wrongful behavior as the price of friendship.
Jesus taught that we love and care for one another without condoning transgression. But today’s politically palatable definition insists that unless one accepts the sin he does not tolerate the sinner.
As Elder Dallin H. Oaks has explained,
Tolerance obviously requires a non-contentious manner of relating toward one another’s differences. But tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination. [15]
The Church does not condone abusive treatment of others and encourages its members to treat all people with respect. However, speaking out against practices with which the Church disagrees on moral grounds – including same-sex marriage – does not constitute abuse or the frequently misused term “hate speech.” We can express genuine love and friendship for the homosexual family member or friend without accepting the practice of homosexuality or any re-definition of marriage.
Resty, doesn’t matter how many statements from LDS officials you post in order to try to divert attention away from your false witness, I’m still waiting on you to discover sufficient integrity to confess and apologize for it.
Just who are you to judge another I only know you by your actions which have been consistant anti LDS!
Hear yourself what you give approval or not.
As far as the LDS is concern it is you who is imposing your will and standards which is not of the Lord!
Your actions remind me of the similar spirit that seems to rule Obama he wants to correct the world as he sees, it is his will he is imposing upon America.
Are you not imposing your will when you acuse me of things that you feel is correct. I take my counsel from the Lord.
It is thy will be done oh Lord not my will or any other force.
Jacob 4
11 Wherefore, beloved brethren, be reconciled unto him through the atonement of Christ, his Only Begotten Son, and ye may obtain a resurrection, according to the power of the resurrection which is in Christ, and be presented as the first-fruits of Christ unto God, having faith, and obtained a good hope of glory in him before he manifesteth himself in the flesh.
13 Behold, my brethren, he that prophesieth, let him prophesy to the understanding of men; for the Spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly, for the salvation of our souls. But behold, we are not witnesses alone in these things; for God also spake them unto prophets of old.
Matt 19
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
John 8
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
In conclusion, diversity and choice are not the weightier matters of the law. The weightier matters that move us toward our goals of eternal life are love of God, obedience to his commandments, and unity in accomplishing the work of his Church. In this belief and practice we move against the powerful modern tides running toward individualism and tolerance rather than toward obedience and cooperative action. Though our belief and practice is unpopular, it is right, and it does not require the blind obedience or the stifling uniformity its critics charge. If we are united on our eternal goal and united on the inspired principles that will get us there, we can be diverse on individual efforts in support of our goals and consistent with those principles.
http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6647
Love is the healing force and some are so wrapped up in the Letter of the law ignoring the counsel from the Spirit of the Lord.
Resty: “I only know you by your actions which have been consistant anti LDS!”
Resty, you leave me no choice but to conclude that you’re simply a knowing and wilful liar, lacking the integrity to tell the truth apologize for your false witness.
Your accusations are simply false, you can provide no evidence of them, but you keep repeating them.
My criticism of Mitt Romney’s pro-abortion, pro-homosexual record is not “anti LDS” and has nothing to do with his religion. In fact, it is his record before running for prez that was at odds with LDS pro-life and pro-family values.
Stop lying, Resty.
She MUST have heard them from the LDS hierarchy; for it appears that no independant thought comes from her head.
your thin skin is showing!:)
And your lack of integrity is showing, Resty.
Why such a challenge with telling the truth?
Either produce evidence of your false witness, or apologize.
Simple enough.
Sorry but you cannot intimidate me with bully tactic!
Get over yourself!
Do you have to be “intimidated” into telling the truth, Resty?
If your false witness were true, you would have no trouble producing examples, right?
Your failure to do so is an open admission that your accusations are false. I’m just waiting for you to have the integrity to admit it, and apologize.
But I’m a patient guy.
What WOULD it take to get you to answer an honest question:
Just what did Joseph Smith 'learn' to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?
Surely someone who WAS a PRESBYTERIAN at one time, and then was convinced to switch to MORMONism, would know the answer.
There are ONLY two possibilities:
Either you DO know; and, for some REASON known only to you, you WILL not answer the question, or...
You DON'T know, and then the question becomes: why DON'T you know it?
Good for you; for this is what Scripture teaches us!
1 Timothy 1:18-19
18. Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight,
19. holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
2 Peter 3:15-16
15. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
The Church does not condone abusive treatment of others and encourages its members to treat all people with respect.
Oh?
Then WHY does the 'church' continue to publish this TRASH month after month?
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
I have no clue what you are whinning about or a need too, the Lord’s Church and LDS is doing find inspite of you aints.
2 Nephi 2
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
AFA-Michigan, Stop trying to impose your will or govern other faiths!
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