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To: CondoleezzaProtege

No where does it say those people were Mary’s children.

You might want to read this:

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_brothers.html

http://www.catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp


14 posted on 11/05/2009 6:18:21 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

Vladimir, thank you for your respectful responses and sources you post. Here are my issues with what the website describes:

Their main line of defense is not found in the main canon of Scripture, but in a source outside of the Bible called the “Protoevangelium of James.” If affirming Mary’s sinlessness and perpetual virginity was of utmost importance, why did the *original* Church fathers not feel it necessary to include this so-called Protoevangelium in the Bible? The reason: becuase there were lots of false texts and false gospels making their rounds everywhere!

The site does not adequately refute what exactly is meant then by those “brothers” and “sisters” of Jesus mentioned in the Gospels of the Bible? It does not take a super-theologian or rocket scientist to figure out that in context, BIOLOGICAL relatives from his house and hometown are explicitly implied.

Lastly, the site claims that Protestant Reformers such as John Calvin held to the perpetual virginity of Mary? That could not be further from the truth. Read this excerpt from John Calvin’s commentary on the Gospel of Matthew:

Harmony of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. 2. “The word brothers, we have formerly mentioned, is employed, agreeably to the Hebrew idiom, to denote any relatives whatever; and, accordingly, Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s brothers are sometimes mentioned.”

^ Calvin. “Commentary on Luke 1:34”. Harmony of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. 1. “The conjecture which some have drawn from these words [’How shall this be, since I know not a man?’], that she had formed a vow of perpetual virginity, is unfounded and altogether absurd. She would, in that case, have committed treachery by allowing herself to be united to a husband, and would have poured contempt on the holy covenant of marriage; which could not have been done without mockery of God. Although the Papists have exercised barbarous tyranny on this subject, yet they have never proceeded so far as to allow the wife to form a vow of continence at her own pleasure. Besides, it is an idle and unfounded supposition that a monastic life existed among the Jews.”


16 posted on 11/05/2009 6:33:07 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege (Salvation is by FAITH alone.)
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To: vladimir998
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

The word for brother here is ἀδελφός Which means brother. In this context it does not mean the broader term for brother which can be used as we do meaning someone who belongs to the same group such as "brothers in arms". If you want to say as in the Bible that someone is a cousin or a kinsman rather than a brother with the same mother or father or mother and father you would use the word συγγενής. This word is used for the word cousin, kinfolks and kinsmen, ect. If the relatives of Jesus spoken of in Mark 6:3 were merely cousins or kinfolks the word συγγενής would have been used but it was not. The word ἀδελφός was used which means that they really were Jesus' brothers.

Below are just a few examples of when the word συγγενής is used in the Bible in the place of the word for cousin, kin, kinsmen etc.

Mar 6:4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own KIN, and in his own house.

Luk 1:36 And, behold, thy COUSIN Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luk 1:58 And her neighbours and her COUSIN heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

Luk 2:44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among [their] KINSFOLK and acquaintance.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my KINSMEN according to the flesh:

Now here are examples of when the word ἀδελφός is used which is the word for brother when used with specific names to denote a relationship. The same word for brother in the verses listed below is the same word in Greek that is used to denote the relationship that Christ had to his brothers in Mark 6:3. If you look carefully at these examples you will see that Jesus did have brothers. I hope that you will at least.

Mat 4:21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his BROTHER, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his BROTHER;

Mar 1:19 And when he had gone a little further thence, he saw James the [son] of Zebedee, and John his BROTHER, who also were in the ship mending their nets.

Mar 3:17 And James the [son] of Zebedee, and John the BROTHER of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:

Mar 5:37 And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the BROTHER of James.

Mar 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the BROTHER of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Act 12:2 And he killed James the BROTHER of John with the sword.

Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's BROTHER.

Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and BROTHER of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:

Also, the word sisters in the Greek which is used in Mark 6:3 can be shown over and over in the Bible to mean sister as we know it and not just generalized female "kin".

32 posted on 11/07/2009 1:51:48 AM PST by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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