Posted on 10/24/2009 3:47:20 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
The Rt Rev John Hind, the Bishop of Chichester, has announced he is considering becoming a Roman Catholic in a move that could spark an exodus of clergy.
Bishop Hind said he would be "happy" to be reordained as a Catholic priest and said that divisions in Anglicanism could make it impossible to stay in the church.
He is the most senior Anglican to admit that he is prepared to accept the offer from the Pope, who shocked the Church of England last week when he paved the way for clergy to convert to Catholicism in large numbers.
In a further blow to the Archbishop of Canterbury's hopes of preventing the Anglican Communion from disintegrating, other bishops have cast doubt over its survival.
The Rt Rev John Broadhurst, the Bishop of Fulham, even claimed that "the Anglican experiment is over". He said it has been shown to be powerless to cope with the crises over gays and women bishops.
In one of the most significant developments since the Reformation, the Pope last week announced that a new structure would be set up to allow disaffected Anglicans to enter full communion with Rome, while maintaining parts of their Protestant heritage.
The move comes after secret talks between the Vatican and a group of senior Anglican bishops.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
Actually Anglicanism lost its Apostolic Succession in the 16th century.
Mind you, some Scandinavian Lutherans (esp. the Swedes) insist they never lost Apostolic Succession.
http://dougstheology.blogspot.com/2009/09/apostolic-succession-in-sweden.html
Cardinal Newman, Anglican convert, said "converts come to the Catholic Church not so much to lose what they have, but to gain what they have not, by means of what they have, more may be given to them." or as Yogi said 'it ain't over till it's over. Regards,
All interesting conjectures, but as you say, it's hard to tell. What if Rome had given the English bishops permission for a liturgy in English? That might have stopped protestantism in its tracks in England. But we will never know. It's just a conjecture.
But this I do know. There won't be many of these Anglican personal ordinariates conducting the liturgy in Latin. They will be using some of that beautiful English from the old Book of Common Prayer that came out of the early years of the Protestant Reformation. That language is an essential part of the Anglican liturgical and spiritual patrimony that these personal ordinariates are designed to preserve.
IIRC, the Swedish Lutheran Church also retained Apostolic Succession.
The Pope was an enemy of Spanish King/Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. It was Charles’s army that sacked Rome and captured the Pope as a prisoner. Catherine of Aragon was Charles’s aunt so no way in hell would Charles allow his prisoner Pope to annul his Aunt’s marriage and humiliate her and the whole Hapsburg family.
Just some background, while there is a Papal document regarding the validity of Anglican Orders (this post is not about that substance), I have recently completed “No Ordinary Fool” in which in the Rev. John Jay Hughes made a case for “conditional Ordination” which I might suspect might be fairly common with any Traditional Anglicans crossing the bridge.
From what I understand the more Traditional Anglicans tend to be very concerned with maintaining the Apostolic succession therefore conditional is probably more appropriate.
This is a very deep Theological issue above my pay grade.
Thus proving my basic premise, that the Anglican church was the result of politics, not theological differences.
Thank you for your cursory interest in history.
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
You’re welcome! I’m just not a believer of revisionist history...
I wash born Catholic, an I wash raished Catholic, and dad gum it, I am gonna die Catholic, an no sidewindin’ bushwackin’, hornswanglican’ cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter.
“I’m just not a believer of revisionist history...”
You need to get beyond Cliff’s notes, my friend.
Yes, oh great one. Its nice to know we have such eminent scholars on FR.
“That language is an essential part of the Anglican liturgical and spiritual patrimony that these personal ordinariates are designed to preserve. “
I think they are to be preserved so that converting Anglican faithful will find the transition easier (and I think this is with the purest of intentions) - but only until they can be brought into line with standard RCC liturgy. Why would the RCC want to preserve the Anglican rites for the long term?
“Its nice to know we have such eminent scholars on FR”
Read them. There really are some bright and informed people on these threads. Maybe one day, with some effort, you can be among those eminent scholars.
My father and I are discussing this right now. One thing to watch for: a meeting between the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Queen. Now, consider this: if the Pope offers the Archbishop not just re-ordination as a Cardinal, but as Patriarch of an Anglican sect?
The Catholic Church does recognize Anglican apostolic succession where it exists. The problem is that part of the requirements for apostolic succession include a proper understanding of the meaning of the priestly ministry, meaning that those who have apostolic succession are a dwindling minority. But several Episcopal priests have been welcomed into the Catholic priesthood without requiring new Holy Orders. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the new structure will streamline the ordination of many more priests who cannot establish succession with their current Holy Orders.
Because that is part of their patrimony. If you that any Anglicans are going to fall for a ploy that like, you are deceiving yourself. By the way, the beauty and reverence of a tradition Anglican rite of Holy Communion puts the modern RC Mass in English to shame. Roman Catholics will need the Anglicans to teach them how to improve the modern mundane, pedestrian, insipid English translation of the Latin Mass. Pope Benedict knows the church has to improve its sloppy liturgy or he will never make any progress with the Eastern Orthodox churches. Progess with the Orthodox will depend a great deal on how well these personal ordinariates are received into the church.
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