Posted on 10/20/2009 9:44:06 PM PDT by iowamark
Rome has parked its tanks on the Archbishop of Canterbury’s lawn after manoeuvres undertaken by up to fifty bishops and begun two years ago by an Australian archbishop, John Hepworth...
In the US, where a similar “Anglican usage” model has been in operation for years and will now be incorporated into the new ordinariate structures, there are 77 million Catholics alongside a mere 1.8 million Episcopalians. A few incoming conservative Anglicans have made little difference.
In England and Wales, the proportions are reversed, with 25 million baptised Anglicans but four million Catholics.... Set against this, however, is the more confident American-style Catholicism that this initiative represents...
Archbishop Nichols is a priest in the same mould as the late Cardinal Basil Hume, who led the moves to welcome in opponents of women priests back in 1994... A priest of remarkable charisma, Archbishop Nichols could easily end up in a senior position in Rome himself, if not the most senior.
He was clearly “in charge” at the joint press conference at the Catholic Church’s Eccleston Square administrative offices yesterday, at one point interrupting to answer a question addressed to the Archbishop of Canterbury. He appears to have no compunctions about unsettling a few Anglicans...
Although the established status of the Church of England means this could never be a straightforward process, Rome’s new move undercuts all that by allowing for unity to evolve upwards organically, from the grass roots, as forseen by an ecumenical report produced a few years ago.
Every church leader speaks about unity, but they all want it on their terms. Pope Benedict XVI is the first since the Reformation who seems to have hit on a realistic way of turning the clock back by moving it forwards...
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
I agree with Cronos...Orthodoxy is going to be a harder nut to crack.
This development required no less than a hurricane of liberalism blowing through the Anglican Communion. It stripped the roof off the building and made people go looking for alternative shelter. People were forced into solutions that were less than ideal (foreign oversight, continuing churches) for the sake of maintaining orthodoxy.
Like camping, sure, it’s fun for a while to be out in the elements....but stay out there long enough and most people will be begging for a roof and 4 walls. Even if it’s a stranger’s house.
The TAC specifically requested to come in and put no preconditions on their re-entry. They made it easy for Rome to welcome them. No similar situation exists for Orthodoxy today, and moreover, there is still considerable resistance to reunion among the Orthodox faithful. I’m still hopeful that a reunion can be worked out in time, but without some other kind of pressure bringing itself to bear, I don’t think it’ll be anytime soon.
Just thinking out loud here, but wouldn’t another option be for the Queen to call for the repeal of the laws of 1688? I thought I heard rumblings in that direction some time ago.
I can’t see that Her Majesty would face much political opposition in that regard.
Well, for a start, it would cause trouble in Northern Ireland and secondly, the ‘Glorious Revolution’ is a defining moment in England’s history, roughly equivilent to 1776 in the US or 1789 in France.
It represented the final primacy of Parliament and Liberty over the King, and its a complete non-starter to suggest that the Queen would dare to imply that the Glorious Revolution should be rescinded.....
1) She is head of the Church of England by law and is required to be a member
She isn’t required to be an Anglican, merely a protestant. William III (1688-1702) was a Calvinist and all the monarchs from George I to William IV (1714-1837) were Lutherans...
III.
And whereas it is requisite and necessary that some further Provision be made for securing our Religion Laws and Liberties from and after the Death of His Majesty and the Princess Ann of Denmark and in default of Issue of the Body of the said Princess and of His Majesty respectively Be it enacted by the Kings most Excellent Majesty by and with the Advice and Consent of the Lords Spirituall and Temporall and Commons in Parliament assembled and by the Authority of the same
That whosoever shall hereafter come to the Possession of this Crown shall joyn in Communion with the Church of England as by Law established
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?activeTextDocId=1565208
And if the Church of England comes in communion with the Church of Rome?
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
“1) She is head of the Church of England by law and is required to be a member.”
Who represents the CoE, if they go into schism? The Queen hasn’t left the Church, if the Church chooses to rejoin Catholicism. She’s both Catholic and a member of the CoE.
“2) Under the Act of Settlement (1700) that governs the succession to the throne she and her heirs are barred from entering into communion with the Roman Catholic Church, on penalty of losing their succession rights.”
Again, this would apply if she were to convert. If the entire church converts, then really, the Act no longer makes sense anymore.
3) Under the Statute of Westminster (1931) the British Parliament cannot alter the succession to the throne without the permission of the other dominions. Therefore amending the Act of Settlement would require the agreement of all the other Commonwealth Dominions that recognize her as head of state.
This is the biggest problem. I do not see significant support for the Act of Supremacy in the colonies. Especially not here. She’d be Queen of Canada before anywhere else.
“Until the law is amended she is by law forced to be a member of the Church along with women priests and gay bishops. As are her children and grandchildren if they wish to assume the throne at some time in the future.”
What happens when the CoE itself splits? I don’t see any clues from the Act of Supremacy.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Or you can accept the fact that this city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, “biblical”?
Dr. Raymond Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria!
At the time of the Act of Settlement, what good Englishman would believe that Church of England bishops would ever be taking men as their lawful wedded spouses? So we're off into Terra Incognata, guys.
What can I say? See post #28 above.
“As for the queen - she will have to jump out from under the bus.....”
Hmmm, I suspect the Queen had that bus idling in neutral..awaiting Benedict...
“When Pope Benedict visits this country next year, he is expected to stay at Buckingham Palace as a guest of the Queen. The warmth of her welcome will come as no surprise to the Pontiff, if senior sources at the Vatican are to be believed. According to informants quoted in The Catholic Herald, the Queen has ‘grown increasingly sympathetic’ to the Catholic Church over the years while being ‘appalled’, along with the Prince of Wales, at developments in the Church of England. The usually well-informed newspaper adds that the Queen, who is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, ‘also said to have an affinity with the Holy Father, who is of her generation.’”
http://www.practicalbible.com/content/queen-england-has-affinity-with-pope
How many of these 25 million are the Traditionalist Anglicans?
I'd be happy to see this come about formally. It could lead to greater trust and understanding between the two sides.
the queen is a tough old bird :)
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