Posted on 10/20/2009 8:59:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Have you ever noticed that that painting says “Year Of The State, 49.” We all think about Henry’s divorces, we forget what a proto communist he was.
Yep, they can preach the word of God all they want, they just can’t confect the eucharist. Strictly speaking, they shouldn’t give the homily or be anywhere in the sanctuary part of the church, but I’m not a stickler.
Oh, and they really ought to cover their heads when in church. Rather undecent to do otherwise, eh wot.
Yes but, it talked of an Anglican Rite, and there is no such thing at this time. There is an Anglican Use Divine Liturgy, but no rite. I would not LIKE to see an Anglican Rite. I joined the Latin Rite, and I think the Anglican liturgy and music are divinely inspired and should be allowed to work into the Roman Catholic community as a whole, not be sealed off into a separate rite as the Maronites have been. It is the Sarum Use liturgy, it predates the C of E, and it should be retained.
However, with that said, I’m a bit torn about the use of the prayers of the heretic Thomas Cranmer. Our Cardinal said mass in our little chapel and it hurt my heart a little bit to hear him use the words of Cranmer.
You know, after the reformation, they removed the crucifix from the roodscreens of a lot of English churches, and replaced it with the royal coat of arms and something about loyalty to the monarch.
They can start new churches the way everybody else does. Start meeting in someone’s living room. Move up to a school gymnasium or as secret guest congregation to an existing church. Get a strip mall storefront church. Buy some land, build a temporary church. Build a real church, use the temporary as a parish hall. Buy the surrounding land, kick out the neighbors. Build a school.
I was just talking about this with a coworker earlier. Ironically, the 1928 prayer book is decidedly low church, but that does not mean it is not very conservative and orthodox. It is the prayer book of the church that only did communion once a month, meaning that morning prayer the daily office are that much more important. It’s the mass where when you finish communion, you don’t get up and go, you’re only getting toward the end, you’re on your knees for another eternity before you’re released. It’s the church of the Priest consecrating the elements ad orientem, and “doing his business” with his hands over the bread and wine. But there is no emphasis on chasubles and headgear, incense or crucifixes, latin or chant. It’s a good lesson that low church does not have to mean unorthodox.
If it's any consolation, Cranmer was appalled when the catholic clergy (those who hadn't been routed out of the church in England by 1549) were comfortable using his liturgy. He left it muddled enough (in typically English fashion) that it could be interpreted catholic or protestant. Most of the liturgy is a straight english translation of the Sarum Rite. Asthetically, it is superior to the current english translation of the Latin Rite - but I'm probably biased having grown up with it and only recently having made the swim.
This was done for the Traditional Anglican Communion - not for some generic "here you go if you're interested" purpose. It's being rolled out in that fashion so as to soothe the shattered egos of the "official" Anglican Communion and the English Catholic clergy. It may become a model for others somewhere down the road but this is being done for the TAC and the TAC has no interest in the Anglican Use liturgy. They'll modify the 1928 BCP and the other uses based on that book if they have to, but I don't think there'll be too much of that.
I swam too, Confirmed in 2006. Didn’t go Anglican Use, but went the traditional way, through RCIA. After a while I decided I needed something different than the Novus Ordo and the heavily gay parish I was confirmed in and found my way to the Anglican Use parish in town. Stayed there for about three years. Recently have returned to my piskie parish for a number of reasons, but mostly because I haven’t found a Catholic community that fits my needs. I have some regrets, but... before I left the only problem was that I wasn’t catholic, and now I am, so I’m having my cake and eating it too.
I would say welcome home...
re Cranmer — he may have been a heretic, but dude could write scripture. I’m irritated every week that we don’t say the Prayer of Humble Access where I’m attending, and a couple of other pieces. The eucharistic prayer etc. is the Roman Canon, so I don’t have a problem with that.
That's a shame. We stumbled in to a basilica with a Benedictine priest - so I think, liturgically, it's about as good as it gets for a former Anglican in Latin Rite Land. Many of the hymns we sing are straight out of the 1940 Hymnal - though they can't resist modernizing most of them.
There will have to be a certain amount. There are some things that we say in the Anglican Use liturgy that are clangingly out of place and thus I can tell that they had to be put in because of Rome. One is where we say “Pray Brethren that our sacrifice may be acceptable to the Lord Our God” and we respond “May the Lord accept this sacrifice at your hand, for the praise and glory of His Name, for our good and the good of all his church.” Also, at the consecration where they say “This is my blood, the blood of the new and unending covenant. It shall be shed for you and for many so that sins may be forgiven.”
So you think the TAC will get a separate Rite so that the geographical sovereign, the Archbishop will not have authority over them? What about the AMIA? You don’t think this constitution is meant to be applied to many constituencies RIGHT NOW? You think it’s just about the TAC? I doubt it.
Really. Most of the Bogus Ordo churches I’ve been to use some crap hymnal mostly with haugen-hass hymns. There are lots of hymns with good old fashioned Anglican tunes (with attribution), but the words are changed, and made worse. I was singing out of the 1928 hymnal in my AU parish and have been renewedly appaled at the 1982 book since I’ve been back. We sang Rockingham the other day and the tenor part is literally neutered.
Not just, but primarily. I'm not very familiar with AMIA - are they solid male only priesthood? Plus they're pretty tiny relative to TAC aren't they? I haven't heard them chime in on the married bishop issue either - every TAC bishop said that if married bishops was a stumbling block (which they knew it was) they would step down rather than give up. That's why these Personal Ordinariates can be led by a priest. - so the married bishops will still be running them - in concert with the local Ordinary, I believe I read.
I've noticed different wording in many of the familiar tunes. We use a red, hard cover book that's like a missal, service music book and hymnal all in one. - I don't know what it's official title is, but I've been very pleasantly suprised, from a liturgical point of view. I have a feeling if we'd ended up at just about any other parish in the diocese, it would be a different story.
Consideration of Anglican feelings and those of current British Catholic clergy is of prime importance. That is why the RCC will not allow any property disputes to erupt and will likely low key this situation. It isn’t a numbers game with the score given at every juncture. The lads from Rome can be masters of conciliation and will do what they can to mitigate hurt feelings. This situation is very sad for those who feel compelled to make a decision to leave and our prayers should attend to their situation. In this country do you think those so disposed to leave will more than likely join an existing RCC church or will they be more inclined to form their own congregations. Many of the devout would like to see them join an existing parish to work and change the “Rot” ushered in by VatII
You are probably using the “Adoremus Hymnal.” It has the traditional hymns and service music, along with the Novus Ordo in Latin and English (on facing pages). And it is a bright red.
That's a really good question and I don't know the answer. I think that what was announced today was primarily in response to the petition of the Traditional Anglican Communion, which is an international group of continuing Anglican churches, each with its own structure already in place.
Thanks, but I don't think that's the one. The one we use does not look like the picture of the Adoremus Hymnal that I saw. Does that have all the lessons for all three years in the back? Ours has service music in the front, hymns in the middle, and lessons and psalms (including the notation for the responsory) for all three years in the back.
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