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To: John O; wintertime
How does anyone know they are saved? They can only go on what they believe. We have biblical grounds for our faith. Good enough for me

I have no problem with whether it's good enough for you. But it still reduces to the ridiculous notion that just because someone believes in it, it must be true.

Circular reasoning. Your faith authenticates the Bible and the Bible authenticates your faith.

Good enough for me

I am glad, but what makes you the universal standard? Just because it works for you doesn't mean it's universally true.

Please see this link Does Salvation result from Works or from Faith?

That's not what Jesus teaches in the Synoptic Gospels. That's Paulianity, not Christianity.

There are no "magic words" there is however a plan that God has established in His word

The magic words are "I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior...and then you must be baptized...all rituals coming form a book which you, by your choice, consider sacred. It's all a belief. I don't share your belief and you have nothing to offer that would prove that your belief is true—except your own belief! That's about as good as monopoly money.

Ask God's forgiveness. "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13

Well, the Bible also says that whatever you ask for in belief will be grated to you...cherry-picking is easy. It doesn't prove anything however.

"To all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12 (See Revelation 3:20.)

What do you mean "receive" him? That is such an oxymoron. Who is man to "receive" God? It seem meet that the Lord should receive us, rather than the other way around. Either we are acceptable to God or we are not, and even that would have to be according to his will and not ours.

C. Confess that Jesus is your Lord. "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (See verse 10.)

Magical words...more rituals.

77 posted on 10/20/2009 5:42:28 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50

***How does anyone know they are saved? They can only go on what they believe. We have biblical grounds for our faith. Good enough for me

I have no problem with whether it’s good enough for you. But it still reduces to the ridiculous notion that just because someone believes in it, it must be true.

Circular reasoning. Your faith authenticates the Bible and the Bible authenticates your faith.***

Sounds perfect; now reality sets in where Joe next door believes that x means y and John next to door to him believes that x means z.

Whereas in reality, neither of them have a clue because neither of the them have investigated the Faith and what the Fathers declared.

***”To all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” John 1:12 (See Revelation 3:20.)

What do you mean “receive” him? That is such an oxymoron. Who is man to “receive” God? It seem meet that the Lord should receive us, rather than the other way around. Either we are acceptable to God or we are not, and even that would have to be according to his will and not ours.***

That is also a result of the Reformation - that God must accept us on our own human terms. The original Church belief is that God will accept us only on His terms.


79 posted on 10/20/2009 6:46:30 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: kosta50
Circular reasoning. Your faith authenticates the Bible and the Bible authenticates your faith.

Sorry. I have the faith BECAUSE the bible is authentic.

We all come to the point where we have to accept something as true. I choose to believe the bible.

How do Catholics know they are going to heaven? Do they? Or are they just hoping.

I am glad, but what makes you the universal standard? Just because it works for you doesn't mean it's universally true.

The bible says it. That makes it universally true. Doesn't matter whether I believe it or not.

John O->Please see this link Does Salvation result from Works or from Faith?

kosta50->That's not what Jesus teaches in the Synoptic Gospels. That's Paulianity, not Christianity.

So Paul's writings in the bible are not the word of God? Then why did the fathers of the faith (whom you appear to place your faith in) include them in canon scripture?

The bible is perfectly internally consistent. If you are seeing differences between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught then you are misinterpreting one or the other. I see no difference between the two teachings. They are in perfect agreement. (Of course my understanding is not perfect as I am not perfect. I will only understand perfectly when I get to heaven)

The magic words are "I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior...and then you must be baptized...all rituals coming form a book which you, by your choice, consider sacred.

The exact words don't matter (hence there are no magic words) Salvation is a matter of the heart not the lips.

It's all a belief. I don't share your belief and you have nothing to offer that would prove that your belief is true—except your own belief!

OH! so you're an atheist! That explains everything. I didn't think the Catholics let atheists be members though.

(Everything is a belief and I never said otherwise.)

Well, the Bible also says that whatever you ask for in belief will be grated to you...cherry-picking is easy. It doesn't prove anything however.

Yep. Whatever we ask for in accordance with God's will, doubting not, and unwavering, God will give us. The trick is to be in accordance with His will and to doubt not.

What do you mean "receive" him? That is such an oxymoron. Who is man to "receive" God? It seem meet that the Lord should receive us, rather than the other way around. Either we are acceptable to God or we are not, and even that would have to be according to his will and not ours.

Let me handle these in reverse order.

We are not acceptable to God. We are totally incapable of being acceptable to God as we are imperfect. That is why salvation is necessary. If we could be acceptable on our own there would have been no reason for Jesus to die on the cross. Jesus died so that we eternally unacceptable humans could be made acceptable to God through His blood. Why? Because God loved us so much that He gave His Son for us. It is a totally free gift that we cannot earn.

Why do we need to receive Him? Because God is a gentleman. He will not force us to accept Him.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Notice that He doesn't just barge in. He doesn't break down the door. He waits for us to receive Him and invite Him in.

John O->C. Confess that Jesus is your Lord. "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (See verse 10.)

Magical words...more rituals.

If God says to do something then it's not just ritual.

(And note that I have not mocked the Catholics although you have done your best to mock the Protestants)

87 posted on 10/21/2009 5:20:18 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: kosta50; John O; wintertime; MarkBsnr

“What do you mean “receive” him? That is such an oxymoron. Who is man to “receive” God? It seem meet that the Lord should receive us, rather than the other way around...”

John Calvin, is that you?!

“Scripture, when it treats of justification by faith, leads us in a very different direction. Turning away our view from our own works, it bids us look only to the mercy of God and the perfection of Christ. The order of justification which it sets before us is this: first, God of his mere gratuitous goodness is pleased to embrace the sinner, in whom he sees nothing that can move him to mercy but wretchedness, because he sees him altogether naked and destitute of good works. He, therefore, seeks the cause of kindness in himself, that thus he may affect the sinner by a sense of his goodness, and induce him, in distrust of his own works, to cast himself entirely upon his mercy for salvation. This is the meaning of faith by which the sinner comes into the possession of salvation, when, according to the doctrine of the Gospel, he perceives that he is reconciled by God; when, by the intercession of Christ, he obtains the pardon of his sins, and is justified; and, though renewed by the Spirit of God, considers that, instead of leaning on his own works, he must look solely to the righteousness which is treasured up for him in Christ.”

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.v.xii.html


90 posted on 10/21/2009 7:19:38 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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