Posted on 09/21/2009 5:51:47 AM PDT by Colofornian
The 8th Article of Faith states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."
In the title page of the Book of Mormon, we read, "...if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God."
Lastly, we read the words of Moroni shortly after he took over his father's record: "Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him ... we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, ... and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record" (Mormon 9:30-31).
As emphasized repeatedly in this series, anything with which man is involved -- even if directed by God -- will be imperfect, fallible and, to some degree, errant. Neither ancient nor modern prophets were, or are, perfect, and the scriptures they've produced will likewise fall short of inerrancy. Fallible human prophets and errant scripture can still lead us to God despite any imperfections.
As explained in previous issues, prophets must communicate revelation -- whether in general-conference addresses or when writing scripture -- according to their own language and their limited understanding of this world and the eternities.
All language is inherently ambiguous -- all have words or phrases that can mean different things to different readers. Take the word "cleave" for example. It can mean to cut something apart -- as in "to cleave a diamond into two smaller stones" -- but it can also mean to cause two things to adhere together, as in "therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24).
Or how about "critical"? We can be critical of someone else's views, or we can say the Bible is critical to Christianity. The context, time frame, and cultural and other variables can affect how a word is understood. The Bible has gone through various translations and each translator made determinations about the meaning of words based on his or her familiarity with the words and how they would have been used by the specific author. Errors are bound to happen.
Some might be tempted to think that because the Book of Mormon came directly from God to Joseph Smith there shouldn't be any errors. This, however, is a naive assumption. An exact word-for-word translation from one language to another typically yields little more than gibberish.
Even for Joseph to have understood the text, the Lord would have had to translate the Nephite words into something that made sense to Joseph. And it's important to remember that the purpose of translating the Book of Mormon into English was to teach spiritual truths that can cause individuals to receive personal revelation, not to reveal historical truths about the ancient inhabitants of the Americas (more on this in the next issue).
Even if God would have conveyed a perfect text to Joseph Smith, any reader whose language, culture or understanding of English words varied from Joseph's Smith's would -- on their own reading of the text -- naturally misinterpret some passages of text.
What does this mean for us who read the imperfect scriptures? The word of God need not be perfect in order to invoke the power of drawing us closer to God. In Doctrine and Covenants section 128, for example, Joseph Smith quotes Malachi 4:5-6 exactly as it is quoted in the King James Version Bible. In verse 18 the prophet Joseph added: "I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands."
We should take the same approach to the scriptures as we take with the prophets -- we should seek the guidance of the Spirit. While the word of God may contain errors, and while we may not fully understand every nuance of every phrase, word or term in the scriptures, the Holy Spirit has the power to help us understand the word of God in its role of drawing us closer to the divine and opening our hearts to personal revelation.
True, I am certainly not omniscient. Not even God could be omniscient, just look at Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
I tried, but I knew you weren't man enough to step up to the plate. Heh! Does that make me a prophet?
I have never been man enough to do anything.
Then your claim that there are no fulfilled prophecies anywhere is nothing but emptty, uncertain bluster. You cannot have searched everywhere so you cannot be certain that your claim that there are no fulfilled prophecies anywhere is actually true.
Cordially,
Glenn Beck is influenced by Mormonism and while I agree with a lot of the work he is doing regarding Acorn and the whole mess in DC, I still have a nagging of doubt about him.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I heard Beck explain how he became a Mormon on his show a while ago. It was interesting. To sum it up, he said:
1. Neither he or his fiancee had any real religious beliefs.
2. His fiancee was refusing to marry him, because she felt children needed a religious framework to be raised in, and Beck couldn’t provide that.
3. They decided to pick a religion to raise their kids in, looked around and chose Mormonism because of the family values it imparted.
4. They both became Mormons, got married, and the rest is history.
I got the impression it wasn’t that he believe Mormonism (or any other religion) was true, he just felt Mormonism provided a lot of benefits for raising a family.
His opinion about the existance of God and the truth of Mormonism (or some other religion) may have changed since then, I don’t know, but that is how he came to be a Mormon in the first place.
And it isn’t an unreasonable move. He wouldn’t be the first person that didn’t believe, but started attending a church because they felt the church would be a good influence on their kids.
From the article above - it is a continuation with the mormon LACK of dealing things within CONTEXT. Stand alone verses, like the stand alone words, can have multiple meanings (look in any dictionary). It is the context which provides the meaning of the word (or verse).
Hmm, another false prophecy I guess. Even when I am wrong I am right : )
You cabal members are tricky. Elsie is a man and you are a women, who would have thunk it?
Double huh??
Why don't you point out a clear, accurate, fulfilled prophecy? All it takes is one and you can prove me wrong : )
But we both know you can't, isn't that interesting? Why should it be so hard to find a single, accurate, verifiable prophecy amongst thousands and thousands written by God himself?
Could it be that the Bible isn't the word of GOD?
Confused? I think you are late to the party : )
Of course as an ex-mormon atheist, I’m sure you will argue against every one of them.
Only those with ears, hear.
7. Zechariah 9:9: This was a prophecy spoken through the prophet Zechariah who lived about 500 years before the coming of Christ. It speaks of Christ’s entry into Jerusalem five days prior to His death on the cross as fulfilled in John 12:13-14: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, you king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
8. Psalm 69:21: King David wrote the following words which were fulfilled when Christ was on the cross (John 19:29): “They put gall in My food and gave Me vinegar for My thirst.”
9. Psalm 22:18: On the cross we also see the following words fulfilled, “They divide My garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.” We read about this fulfillment in Mark 15:24 .
10. Psalm 34:20: “He protects all His bones, not one of them will be broken.” Fulfilled in John 19:33 when Christ was on the cross. .
11. Isaiah 53:9: “He was assigned a grave with the wicked and with the rich in His death, though He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.” We see these words fulfilled in Matthew 27:57-60 at the time of Christ’s burial.
12. Psalm 16:10: “Because You will not abandon Me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay.” These words are fulfilled in Matthew 28 at the time of Christ’s resurrection from the dead. His body did not see decay!
13. Psalm 68:18: “When You ascended on high, You led captives in Your train, You received gifts from men, even from the rebellious – that You, O LORD God, might dwell there.” These words are fulfilled when Christ ascended bodily into heaven. Read Luke 24:50-51 and Ephesians 4:7-9.
Oops, I left off the first six, but I think you get the drift.
What sense would it make to provide evidence to an evidentialist who makes claims but who feels no burden to provide evidence to back up his own claims? You have already showed a reckless disregard for truth by making a fantastic claim, implicit in which is the presumption that you literally know-it-all, and now here you explicitly deny the same. As these unresovable contradictions are internal to your claim, I see nothing yet that meets a threshold of obligation to provide an evidentiary response.
Cordially,
Are these the best you can do? Of course I will argue with everyone of them. They are all false prophecies. To save some time I will pick one to tear apart : ) If you don't like the one I pick pick your best one and I will disprove it too : )
8. Psalm 69:21: King David wrote the following words which were fulfilled when Christ was on the cross (John 19:29): “They put gall in My food and gave Me vinegar for My thirst.”
According to John they gave him vinegar to drink, but where was the gall in his food? At best this prophecy is 50% wrong, but lets see the whole 'prophecy' : )
69:16 Hear me, O LORD; for thy lovingkindness is good: turn unto me according to the multitude of thy tender mercies.
69:17 And hide not thy face from thy servant; for I am in trouble: hear me speedily.
69:18 Draw nigh unto my soul, and redeem it: deliver me because of mine enemies.
69:19 Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee.
69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.
69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
69:22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.
Where is the prophecy? This is someone pleading with GOD to do in his enemies for him. Is this really the best you can come up with for a prophecy? I can do a better job misquoting Tolkein : )
Are these the best you can do? Of course I will argue with everyone of them. They are all false prophecies.
Just as I prophesied. See I was 100% correct. :)
No evidence is required to dispute claims devoid of any evidence.
You have already showed a reckless disregard for truth by making a fantastic claim, implicit in which is the presumption that you literally know-it-all, and now here you explicitly deny the same.
The burden of proof is on you to falsify my claim. Simply point out a clear, accurate, prophecy and you prove me wrong : )
As these unresovable contradictions are internal to your claim, I see nothing yet that meets a threshold of obligation to provide an evidentiary response.
'Unresolvable Contradictions'? That there are no accurate prophecies?
It is interesting watching you squirm, trying to avoid showing where the word of GOD is accurate and predictive : )
: ) Prophecies are easy when the events already happened aren't they?
You didn’t even see it coming, did you? ;)
It’s easy. Some people think they can pick and choose what parts of the Bible to believe, so they use one part of the Bible that’s convenient to believe to disallow other parts of the Bible that they don’t want to believe.
LOL.
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