Posted on 09/01/2009 6:32:29 PM PDT by lightman
I completely agree. Thanks for putting it so well. The loyalty of some to the ELCA baffles me when it has so clearly gone against the Word of God.
“The bottom line is my branch of Christianity was started by St. Peter and Paul. Your branch of Christianity was started by Martin Luther.”
IMO, *all* branches of Christianity were started by Christ Himself. However, Martin Luther broke off from the Catholic Church. IMO, the Lutheran Church was originally started by Peter and Paul (after all, it was originally a part of the Roman Catholic Church), but later split from Catholicism under Luther, though he originally wanted to stay within the Catholic Church to work to change it.
But Jesus Christ certainly didn't “start” the thousands of different denominations/branches of Christianity that exist today. Those were started by individual mortal men trying to interpret Christ's teachings, including the Catholic church with the Pope as leader. No earth religion is going by perfect once human beings try to intrepret it.
The oldest of these denominations are various Catholic and Orthodox churches. Their particular denominations date back to the earliest days of Christianity. For example, St. Mark the Evangelist went to Alexandria and converted the locals to Christianity, forming what is today the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, with Pope Shenouda III as his direct successor 2000 years later. St. Thomas the Apostle came to have come to India in A.D. 52. to start a Christian church. It is today, the Malankara Syrian Catholic Church, who again can claim DIRECT authorized succession back to Thomas after 2000 years. And of course St. Peter comes to Rome in 42 A.D., starting a Christian Church there that becomes known as the Roman Catholic Church by 168 A.D. All of these worship styles and church names can found in writings from the earliest Christians, dating back to 1st and 2nd century A.D.
Various protestant churches don't show up until 1500s. A number of baptists, lutherans, etc. could argue that the early Christians had a worship style and taught in a manner similar to what formally became “their” denomination 1600 years later, but I don't see alot of evidence for it. Things specific and key to be being a member of the Lutherian denomination, like the Augsburg Confession and
The Book of Concord, would have been unknown in St. Peter and Paul's time. St. Peter certainly didn't “start” the Lutheranism denomination, Martin Luther and his followers did when they broke away from the denomination that St. Peter started in Rome.
Now you could make a case that the Catholic church had become corrupted at that time and strayed from Christ's original intent, so Luther had done a better job “restoring” Christ's in the 1500s than the leaders of the Catholic church were doing at the time, but I think it's pretty silly to argue that St. Peter started Lutheranism. Christ started Christianity, St. Peter started Roman Catholicism, and Luther started Lutheranism.
You are correct in saying that Luther intended to reform the Catholic Church from within, not to create a different Christian denomination (though this eventually happened due to Luther being excommunicated). That's why I pointed to the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church, the one Lutheran Church that is trying to maintain Luther's teachings but stay within the church started by St. Peter, the Catholic church.
The Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church accepts the unaltered Augsburg Confession,[3] the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, and Martin Luther's Small Catechism insofar as they are trustworthy witnesses to the gospel and are in agreement with authentic Roman Catholic faith and order, doctrines and traditions.
The Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church accepts papal primacy and papal infallibility, but is not legally under papal authority at this time. It is theologically and socially conservative, with the same view of the nature and authority of scripture as the Roman Catholic Church as stated in the Pontifical Biblical Commission's document, The Interpretion of the Bible in the Church.
The Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church has never had female clergy for the same reasons the Roman Catholic Church rejects the ordination of women,[15] and has placed a moratorium on the ordination of women until such time as it is ordered by a Pope (for the diaconate) or an Ecumenical Council (for the priesthood and episcopacy). The ALCC has the same policies as the Roman Catholic Church on the ordination of homosexual persons[16] and the blessing of same-sex unions,[17] permitting neither.
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