Lutheran Ping!
Posted on 08/21/2009 8:09:58 PM PDT by lightman
Tonight many faithful ECLA Clergy and laity are beginning to feel like resident aliens and to ponder their future given that on many issues--including abortion--they are more attuned to WELS and LCMS doctrine than their own.
Pray for them.
Pray for me. Tonight
Wait until a couple Islamic mullahs demand that they also be allowed to act as gay clergy in the church. The church won’t be able to say no without catching hell in the courts.
I’m living thru this w/ the PC-USA, and before that, as a United Methodist clergy.
The sad thing is the paucity of theological reflection in this process. The “reasoning” that passes for theological reflection are:
1. We know better now.
2. It felt good, therefore it is good.
3. People are born this way.
The last one is obviously not supported by science, but that doesn’t stop anyone from believing it. Sadly, ignoring science is only a momentary lapse, since argument #1 depends on some quotations of questionable science.
And, obviously, you can’t argue with that second one...
ELCA seems to be going to hades in a handcart.
This has stopped being the church that Martin Luther rediscovered.
I don’t think any self proclaimed Muslim would be caught dead being gay — at least not in public.
It seems as though the “Wesleyan Quadrilateral” has infiltrated ELCA Lutheran theology.
“Reason” and “Experience” trump Tradition and Scripture.
I will pray for you. Please pray for me. The have taken our Church from us.
It would be interesting to find out if there are ANY gay clergy who can truthfully claim that they have had only a single binding monogamous life-long homosexual relationship.
I note that they are also talking about lesbians. That means they are talking about female clergy. That is another problem in an of itself.
There have been ministering couples (husband and wife) but that’s a whole different affair.
From a religious perspective, it makes no difference if you are “born this way”. Most men seem to be born with the desire to have sex with as many women as possible, and as Paul said, we struggle throughout our lives to stick to a single committed monogamous relationship.
By the reasoning of the ELCA, clergy should be allowed to have multiple sex partners, because that is how they are “born”.
If they are throwing out the part of the Bible that says “man and woman”, they can certainly throw out the part that says “one”.
Other people are born with a desire to have sex with children or animals, maybe we should let them be clergy as well.
In fact, all men are born sinners. And we are supposed to fight the urge to sin, not accept it since we are “born that way” and appoint people as clergy who openly and repeatedly sin because it feels good.
No, but a self-proclaimed Muslim being caught Gay would be dead.
I guess it isn’t a surprise that they overwhelmingly voted to commune with the Methodists.
Back when I was a Methodist and a Sunday School trustee, I had a talk with my (closeted gay) pastors about the creeping gay promotion and hetero-bashing in our church. They righteously remonstrated about "how these people love one another." I said, "My married boss really, really loves his secretary, and she is mad about him. Is that also right?" They were p'o'ed. I soon got "the letter" -- a list of sins, with mine highlighted in yellow.
Well said.
You are in my prayers. I grieve for the church of my youth. I am now in the Evangelical Covenant and am very happy with my church.
Born and raised Lutheran here, however, in the the interest of family harmony joined my spouse in the Episcopal Church. We all know what happened there, consequently, I have been ‘at sea’ in the sense of a religious/church home for years now. Your confusion and frustrations are understood. Yes, a prayer goes up for you and for all of us who feel that we have been driven out of our church home by those who ‘think’ they know better.
The actual first step that leads to the others is a decision to reject the Gospel. Once you do that, you can justify almost anything.
Accept multiple marriages, accept adultery, accept women pastors, accept abortion. After one has done all that, accepting homosexual activity is nothing.
Any church willing to even consider accepting homosexuality as acceptable behavior makes a mockery of God's Word which is not, and never shall be, consensus-driven.
Pray for them.
Pray for me. Tonight
Dear Lightman,
Consider your request acted upon.
As one who has served in the ministry for half my lifetime in a smaller Lutheran synod whose roots go back to one of the ELCA parent bodies many years ago (you’ll be able to figure out which), I’ll say that there is a wonderful freedom in serving God and God’s people. It doesn’t always pay too well, but I sleep peacefully. I can also stand before the dear people committed to my pastoral care and say, as I often do, that if they hear anything from me that does not square with the Scriptures or the Lutheran Confessions to please, please, come to me and make it known, because it is not simply their right to do so, it is their obligation before God. They should support only that which is right and true, only that ministry in which the Law and the Gospel are truly preached and clearly distinguished one from the other. I also have, in my inaugural sermon at every place I have ever served, instructed the people in these rights and obligations and taught them how to get rid of me. I have never regretted doing so. God’s people can be trusted. That trust has never been betrayed in my time.
Finally, I have no doubt that you and others still in the ELCA feel like resident aliens. In a certain sense any Christian will always feel that way in this world. But when you are tied to a church body that confesses what you know to be wrong, and there is no chance of changing that confession by your staying ... well, the way is clear. Fear not, God is faithful. Shepherd your people out of the danger they clearly are in.
God bless your struggles this night.
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