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To: annalex; PugetSoundSoldier
consilium: A conclusion made with consideration, a determination, resolution, measure, plan, purpose, intention

Ok, how can that apply to (our notion) of God? At what "time" did God make that "conclusion" if he, by definition, knew it from all eternity? God, by definition, exists and works outside of time. God, by necessity, simply acts in "eternal present," as "in the beginning God said "Let there be light!' And there was light."

[Kosta: But the Catechism doesn't say a Muslim has to convert]

Alex: Because formal conversion may or may not happen. We believe in sovereignty of God, who, in His mercy can act in non-ritualistic ways.

So what the catechism is really saying is that, by virtue of their Abrahamic faith, the Muslims are also "included in the plan of salvation" which really means that some of them may come to accept Christ and die "Catholic."

That's just a roundabout, politically correct way of saying "there is no salvation outside the Church," isn't it? Like I said, why can't the Catholic Church just cut through the fluff and either state openly what it is saying sub rosa, or just say "We believe that you can be saved if you are Catholic, but God is not limited to choose other options at his disposal which are not revealed to us"?

596 posted on 09/03/2009 9:06:09 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50; PugetSoundSoldier
At what "time" did God make that "conclusion"

He did that timelessly, of course. For God, to plan is to act. He is the Word, isn't He?

virtue of their Abrahamic faith

Let us be clear what that virtue is. It is an incomplete revelation of God through the ancient prophets, that the Jews received most directly and the Muslims received in some form as well (they, too, read the Old Testament). That is the plan, apparently, to have these concentric circles of truth around the Word fully revealed to the Church.

That's just a roundabout, politically correct way of saying "there is no salvation outside the Church," isn't it?

I often wish they indeed stayed with the simple formula, "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" and did not tinker with it. However, the elaboration of the Catechism that is under discussion has merits for the changed world. It more clearly explains that all nations and faiths are called to virtue, and everyone will receive a reward for virtue from Christ, often to his greatest surprise.

599 posted on 09/03/2009 9:28:55 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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