Posted on 08/04/2009 9:55:57 AM PDT by Salvation
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The belief, contrary to Catholic doctrine, that in the Eucharist the body and blood of Christ coexist with the bread and wine after the Consecration of the Mass. John Wyclif (1324-84) and Martin Luther (1483-1546) professed consubstantiation because they denied transubstantiation.
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I don't understand why anyone would find this belief easier or more reasonable than transsubstantiation.
“I don’t understand why anyone would find this belief easier or more reasonable than transsubstantiation.”
I don’t understand why anyone would presume to precisely define, or feel compelled to precisely define, what happens to the bread and wine at the time of the epiklesis. The Fathers had no problem with it being a Mystery.
The Fathers weren’t accountants.
“The Fathers werent accountants.”
Merely the simple grandsons of simple Hellenic peasants... by in large.
Well, there you go!
**The Fathers had no problem with it being a Mystery.**
Nor do REAL Catholics. It’s OK with me if it is a mystery.
So, why then, am I reduced to tears when receiving the Sacred Body and Blood from the priest? To me, that is a mystery too.
“So, why then, am I reduced to tears when receiving the Sacred Body and Blood from the priest? To me, that is a mystery too.”
Tears, dear lady, are a second baptism.
“Repentance gives rise to the tear from the depths of the soul; the tear cleanses the heart and wipes away great sins. When these have been blotted out through tears the soul finds itself in the comfort of the Spirit of God and is watered by streams of sweetest compunction.” +Symeon the New Theologian
Note that the fundamental doctrine here is that of the Real Presence (of Christ in the Eucharist), most clearly expressed in the scriptural “this is my body”. Transubstantiation is a way to put the Mystery in the context of platonic philosophy of substance and appearance. Consubstantiation is, basically, a complicated piece of nonsense that does not understand basic philosophy, but the reason Consubstantiation was invented by heretics is to rationally explain the Real Presence.
that is absolutely beautiful. Is that a Saint Symeon?
The Fathers were Eastern. The East is always more contemplative, less conceptual; the West more involved in reason. I don’t know why this is, both have their benefits and shortcomings.
I think the response to “precisely define” came as a result to questions and I think these questions occur more in the West than the East for the reason above.
I prefer the Eastern view in the matter, but I’ve found the Western definitions helpful in answering questions. There’s a hump to get over, and transubstantiation is helpful.
You’re a very holy person. I just cry all through Mass (except when I’m leading the Spanish choir ;-) because I’m exhausted.
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