The Doctrine of Purgatory [Ecumenical]

Catholic Culture ^ | 12/01 | Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

[bdeaner]

God created man that he might possess his Creator forever in the beatific vision. Those who die in the state of enmity toward God are deprived of this happiness. Between these extremes are people who are neither estranged from God nor wholly dedicated to Him when they die. What will be their lot after death?

The response of faith is that nothing defiled can enter heaven (Rev 21:27), and therefore anyone less than perfect must first be cleansed before he can be admitted to the vision of God.

If this doctrine of Catholicism is less strenuously opposed than the one on hell, over the centuries it has nevertheless become something of a symbol of Rome. Historically, the Reformation was occasioned by a dispute over indulgences, with stress on indulgences for the souls in purgatory. Since that time, the existence of an intermediate state between earth and heaven has remained a stumbling block to reunion and its final acceptance by the Protestant churches would mean a reversal of four hundred years of divergence.

Too often the eschatology of the Catholic Church is considered her own private domain, when actually the whole of Eastern Orthodoxy subscribes (substantially) to Catholic teaching on the Last Things, including the doctrine on purgatory.

Those In Purgatory

When we speak of the souls of the just in purgatory we are referring to those that leave the body in the state of sanctifying grace and are therefore destined by right to enter heaven. Their particular judgment was favorable, although conditional: provided they are first cleansed to appear before God. The condition is always fulfilled.

The poor souls in purgatory still have the stains of sin within them. This means two things. First, it means that the souls have not yet paid the temporal penalty due, either for venial sins, or for mortal sins whose guilt was forgiven before death. It may also mean the venial sins themselves, which were not forgiven either as to guilt or punishment before death. It is not certain whether the guilt of venial sins is strictly speaking remitted after death, and if so, how the remission takes place.

We should also distinguish between the expiatory punishments that the poor souls in purgatory pay and the penalties of satisfaction which souls in a state of grace pay before death. Whereas before death a soul can cleanse itself by freely choosing to suffer for its sins, and can gain merit for this suffering, a soul in purgatory can not so choose and gains no merit for the suffering and no increase in glory. Rather, it is cleansed according to the demands of Divine Justice.

We are not certain whether purgatory is a place or a space in which souls are cleansed. The Church has never given a definite answer to this question. The important thing to understand is that it is a state or condition in which souls undergo purification.

The Catholic practice of offering prayers and sacrifices for the dead is known as offering suffrages. These suffrages are offered both by the individuals and by the Church. They are intended to obtain for the poor soul, either partial or total remission of punishment still to be endured.

Who are the faithful that can pray effectively for the poor souls? They are primarily all baptized Christians but may be anyone in a state of grace. At least the state of grace is probably necessary to gain indulgences for the dead.

The angels and saints in heaven can also help these souls in purgatory and obtain a mitigation of their pains. When they do so, the process is not by way of merit or of satisfaction, but only through petition. A study of the Church's official prayers reveals that saints and the angelic spirits are invoked for the Church Suffering (i.e., those in purgatory), but always to intercede and never otherwise.

Contrary Views

Since patristic times there have been many who have denied the existence of purgatory and have claimed it is useless to pray for the dead. Arius, a fourth-century priest of Alexandria who claimed that Christ is not God, was a prime example. In the Middle Ages, the Albigenses, Waldenses, and Hussites all denied the existence of purgatory. Generally, the denial by these different groups of heretics was tied in with some theoretical position on grace, or merit, or the Church's authority. But until the Reformation, there was no major reaction to Catholic doctrine on the existence of purgatory.

With the advent of the Reformers, every major Protestant tradition — the Reformed (Calvinist), Evangelical (Lutheran), Anglican (Episcopal) and Free Church (Congregational) — took issue with Roman Catholicism to disclaim a state of purification between death and celestial glory.

John Calvin set the theological groundwork for the disclaimer, which he correctly recognized to be a part of the Protestant idea that salvation comes from grace alone in such a way that it involves no human cooperation:

"We should exclaim with all our might, that purgatory is a pernicious fiction of Satan, that it makes void the cross of Christ, that it intolerably insults the Divine Mercy, and weakens and overturns our faith. For what is their purgatory, but a satisfaction for sins paid after death by the souls of the deceased? Thus the notion of satisfaction being overthrown, purgatory itself is immediately subverted from its very foundation."

It has been fully proved that the blood of Christ is the only satisfaction, expiation, and purgation for the sins of the faithful. What, then, is the necessary conclusion but that purgation is nothing but a horrible blasphemy against Christ? I pass by the sacrilegious pretences with which it is daily defended, the offences, which it produces in religion, and the other innumerable evils, which we see to have come from such a source of impiety."
Institutes of the Christian Religion, III, 5.

Calvin's strictures have been crystallized in the numerous Reformed Confessions of Faith, like the Westminster Confession of the Presbyterian Church. "Prayer is to be made," says the Confession, "for things lawful, and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter; but not for the dead, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death" (Chapter XXI, Section 4).

In the Augsburg Confession of the Lutheran churches, it is stated that "the Mass is not a sacrifice to remove the sins of others, whether living or dead, but should be a Communion in which the priest and others receive the sacrament for themselves" (Chapter XXIV, The Mall).

The Thirty-nine Articles of the Anglican Communion, which in the United States is the Protestant Episcopal Church, are equally clear. They place the existence of purgatory in the same category with image worship and invocation of the saints:

"The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping and Adoration, as well of Images as of Relics, and also Invocation of Saints, is a fond thing, vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God" (Article XXII).

Standard formularies of the Free Church tradition simply omit mention of purgatory from their Confessions of Faith, with a tendency in the United Church of Christ towards universalism. Thus life everlasting is univocally equated with blessedness, the "never-ending life of the soul with God," which means "the triumph of righteousness (in) the final victory of good over evil, which must come because God wills it" (Christian Faith and Purpose: A Catechism, Boston, p. 21).

A fine testimony to the ancient faith in purgatory occurs in the authoritative Confession of Dositheus, previously referred to. This creed of the Orthodox Church was produced by a synod convened in Jerusalem in 1672 by Patriarch Dositheus. The occasion for the creed was Cyril Lucaris, who had been elected Patriarch of Alexandria in 1602 and of Constantinople in 1621, Lucaris was strongly influenced by Protestantism and especially by Reformed theology. His Protestant predilections aroused the opposition of his own people. He was finally strangled by the Turks, who thought he was guilty of treason.

The Confession of Dositheus defines Orthodoxy over against Protestantism. It is the most important Orthodox confession of modern times:

"We believe that the souls of those that have fallen asleep are either at rest or in torment, according to each hath wrought. For when they are separated from their bodies, they depart immediately either to joy or to sorrow and lamentation; though confessedly neither their enjoyment nor condemnation are complete. For, after the common resurrection, when the soul shall be united with the body, with which it had behaved itself well or ill, each shall receive the completion of either enjoyment or of condemnation. Such as though involved in mortal sins have not departed in despair but have, while still living in the body, repented, though without bringing any fruits of repentance — by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and in fine by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church hath from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — of these and such like the souls depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to their sins which they have committed.

But they are aware of their future release from thence, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness through the prayers of the priests and the good works which the relative of each perform for their departed — especially the unbloody Sacrifice availing the highest degree — which each offers particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offers daily for all alike. It is not known, of course, when they will be released. We know and believe that there is deliverance for them from their dire condition, before the common resurrection and judgment, but we do not know when" (Decree XVII).

An unexpected development in contemporary Episcopalianism is the verbal admission of Article XXII of the Thirty-nine Articles alongside a belief in prayers for the dead sanctioned by the American Book of Common Prayer. Among others, one oration reads: "O God, whose mercies cannot be numbered, accept our prayers on behalf of the soul of thy servant, and grant him (her) an entrance into the land of light and joy, in the fellowship of thy saints" (p. 34). Masses for the faithful departed are also offered in the High Church Episcopalianism.

Biblical Elements Of Purgatory

The definition of the Catholic Church on the existence of purgatory is derived from Sacred Scripture and the Sacred Tradition, which Christ promised would enable the Church to interpret Scripture without error. In particular, the Church relied on the writings of the early Fathers in defining this article of faith.

The classic text in the Old Testament bearing witness to the belief of the Jewish people in the existence of a state of purgation where souls are cleansed before entering heaven is found in the Book of Maccabees. Judas Maccabeus (died 161 BC) was a leader of the Jews in opposition to Syrian dominance, and Hellenizing tendencies among his people. He resisted a Syrian army and renewed religious life by rededicating the temple; the feast of Hanukkah celebrates this event.

In context, Judas had just completed a successful battle against the Edomites and was directing the work of gathering up the bodies of the Jews who had fallen in battle. As the bodies were picked up, it was found that every one of the deceased had, under his shirt, amulets of the idols of Jamnia, which the Law forbade the Jews to wear. Judas and his men concluded that this was a divine judgment against the fallen, who died because they had committed this sin of disobedience. The sacred writer describes what happened next:

"So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden and fell to supplication, begging that the sin that had been committed should be wholly blotted out.

And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, after having seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He also took a collection, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, each man contributing, and sent it to Jerusalem, to provide a sin offering, acting very finely and properly in taking account of the resurrection. For if he had not expected that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead; or if it was through reward destined for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, so that they might be set free from their sin" (2 Mac 12:42-46).

The Maccabean text shows that Judas, and the Jewish priests and people believed that those who died in peace could be helped by prayers and sacrifices offered by the living. Luther denied the canonicity of seven books of the Old Testament (the Deuterocanonical books), including the two books of Maccabees. But even if the text were not inspired, as an authentic witness to Jewish history in pre-Christian times it testifies to the common belief in a state of purgation after death and in the ability to help the faithful departed by prayers of intercession on their behalf. Jewish tradition since the time of Christ supports this view.

There are also certain passages in the New Testament that the Church commonly cites as containing evidence of the existence of purgatory. In the Gospel of Matthew, Christ warns the Pharisees that anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this world or in the next (Mt. 12:32). Here Christ recognizes that there exists a state beyond this world in which the penalty due for sins, which were pardoned as to guilt in the world, is forgiven. St. Paul also affirms the reality of purgatory. In his first letter to the Corinthians, he says that "the fire will assay the quality of everyone's work," and "if his work burns he will lose his reward, but himself will be saved, yet so as through fire" (1 Cor 3:13, 15). These words clearly imply some penal suffering. Since he connects it so closely with the divine judgment, it can hardly be limited to suffering in this world, but seems to include the idea of purification through suffering after death, namely in purgatory.

The Fathers On Purgatory

During the first four centuries of the Christian era, the existence of purgatory was commonly taught in the Church, as seen in its universal practice of offering prayers and sacrifices for the dead.

The most ancient liturgies illustrate the custom in such prayers as the following: "Let us pray for our brothers who have fallen asleep in Christ, that the God of the highest charity towards men, who has summoned the soul of the deceased, may forgive him all his sin and, rendered well-disposed and friendly towards him, may call him to the assembly of the living" (Apostolic Constitutions, 8:41).

Equally ancient are the inscriptions found in the catacombs, which provide numerous examples of how the faithful offered prayers for their departed relatives and friends. Thus we read from engravings going back to the second century such invocations as: "Would that God might refresh your spirit . . . Ursula, may you be received by Christ . . . Victoria, may your spirit be at rest in good . . . Kalemir, may God grant peace to your spirit and that of your sister, Hildare . . . Timothy, may the eternal life be yours in Christ."

Writers before Augustine explicitly teach that souls stained with temporal punishment due to sins are purified after death. St. Cyprian (died 258) taught that penitents who die before the Sacrament of Penance must perform the remainder of any atonement required in the other world, while martyrdom counts as full satisfaction (Epistola 55, 20). St. Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) described the sacred rites of the Liturgy with the comment, "Then we pray also for the dead, our holy fathers, believing that this will be a great help for the souls of those for whom the prayer is offered" (Catechesis, 32).

St. Augustine not only presumed the existence of purgatory as a matter of divine faith, but also testified to this belief from the Scriptures. Among other statements, he said, "some believers will pass through a kind of purgatorial fire. In proportion as they loved the goods that perish with more of less devotion, they shall be more of less quickly delivered from the flames." He further declared that the deceased are "benefited by the piety of their living friends, who offer the Sacrifice of the Mediator, or give alms to the Church on their behalf. But these services are of help only to those lives had earned such merit that suffrages of this could assist them. For there is a way of life that is neither so good as to dispense with these services after death, nor so bad that after death they are of not benefit" (Enchiridion 69, 110).

Augustine's most beautiful tribute to purgatory occurs in the book of his Confessions, where he describes the death of his mother Monica and recalls her final request, "Lay this body anywhere at all. The care of it must not trouble you. This only I ask of you, that you remember me at the altar of the Lord wherever you are." Augustine complied with his mother's desire and admits that he did not weep "even in those prayers that were poured forth to Thee while the sacrifice of our redemption was offered for her" (Confessions, IX, 11).

After the Patristic period, the Church did not significantly develop the doctrine of purgatory for many centuries. Then in the twelfth century, Pope Innocent IV (1243-54), building upon the writings of the Fathers, expounded in detail upon the doctrine. In context, Innocent was concerned with reuniting the Greek Church which had been in schism since the Photian scandal in the ninth century. He appealed to the Greek's belief in a state of purgation as a point of departure from which to bring them into communion with Rome. In a doctrinal letter to the apostolic delegate in Greece, he discussed the common belief:

"It is said that the Greeks themselves unhesitatingly believe and maintain that the souls of those who do not perform a penance which they have received, or the souls of those who die free from mortal sins but with even the slightest venial sins, are purified after death and can be helped by the prayers of the Church.

Since the Greeks say that their Doctors have not given them a definite and proper name for the place of such purification, We, following the tradition and authority of the holy Fathers, call that place purgatory; and it is our will that the Greeks use that name in the future.

For sins are truly purified by that temporal fire — not grievous or capital sins which have not first been remitted by penance, but small and slight sins which remain a burden after death, if they have not been pardoned during life" (DB, 456).

The Second Council of Lyons, convened in 1274, used the teaching of Pope Innocent IV in its formal declaration on purgatory. This declaration stated:

"If those who are truly repentant die in charity before they have done sufficient penance for their sins of omission and commission, their souls are cleansed after death in purgatorial or cleansing punishments . . . The suffrages of the faithful on earth can be of great help in relieving these punishments, as, for instance, the Sacrifice of the Mass, prayers, almsgiving, and other religious deeds which, in the manner of the Church, the faithful are accustomed to offer for others of the faithful."

The next major pronouncement by the Catholic Church regarding purgatory came shortly before the Council of Trent, from Pope Leo X who condemned a series of propositions of Martin Luther, including the following:

"Purgatory cannot be proved from the Sacred Scripture which is the Canon. The souls in purgatory are not sure about their salvation, a least not all of them. Moreover it has not been proved from reason or from the Scriptures that they are beyond the state of merit or of growing in charity" (DB 777-778).

The Council of Trent went further, including in the Decree on Justification an anathema of those who deny the debt of temporal punishment, remissible either in this life or in the next:

"If anyone says that, after receiving the grace of justification the guilt of any repentant sinner is remitted and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such a way that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be paid, either in this life or in purgatory, before the gate to the kingdom of heaven can be opened: let him be anathema" (DB 840).

Fifteen years after the Decree on Justification, and shortly before its closing sessions, the Council of Trent issued a special Decree on Purgatory, as well as corresponding decrees on sacred images, invocation of the saints and indulgences. It was a summary statement that referred to the previous definition and that cautioned against some of the abuses that gave rise to the Protestant opposition:

"The Catholic Church, by the teaching of the Holy Spirit, in accordance with Sacred Scripture and the ancient tradition of the Fathers, has taught in the holy councils, and most recently in this ecumenical council, that there is a purgatory, and that the souls detained there are helped by the prayers of the faithful, and especially by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar.

Therefore, this holy council commands the bishops to be diligently on guard that the true doctrine about purgatory, the doctrine handed down from the holy Fathers and the sacred councils, be preached everywhere, and that Christians be instructed in it, believe it, and adhere to it.

But let the more difficult and subtle controversies, which neither edify nor generally cause any increase of piety, be omitted from the ordinary sermons to the poorly instructed. Likewise, they should not permit anything that is uncertain or anything that appears to be false to be treated in popular or learned publications. And should forbid as scandalous and injurious to the faithful whatever is characterized by a kind of curiosity and superstition, or is prompted by motives of dishonorable gain" (DB 983).

Most recently, the Second Vatican Council in its Constitution on the Church renewed the teaching of previous councils on eschatology, including the doctrine of purgatory. "This sacred Council," it declared, "accepts with great devotion this venerable faith of our ancestors regarding this vital fellowship with our brethren who are in heavenly glory or who, having died, are still being purified . . . At the same time, in conformity with our own pastoral interests, we urge all concerned, if any abuses, excesses or defects have crept in here or there, to do what is in their power to remove or correct them, and to restore all things to a fuller praise of Christ and of God" (Chapter VII, no. 51).

Meaning Of The Doctrine

Although not defined doctrine, it is certain that the essential pain in purgatory is the pain of loss, because the souls are temporarily deprived of the beatific vision.

Their suffering is intense on two counts: (1) the more something is desired, the more painful its absence, and the faithful departed intensely desire to possess God now that they are freed from temporal cares and no longer held down by the spiritual inertia of the body; (2) they clearly see that their deprivation was personally blameworthy and might have been avoided if only they had prayed and done enough penance during life.

However, there is no comparison between this suffering and the pains of hell. The suffering of purgatory is temporary and therefore includes the hope of one day seeing the face of God; it is borne with patience since the souls realize that purification is necessary and they do not wish to have it otherwise; and it is accepted generously, out of love for God and with perfect submission to His will.

Moreover, purgatory includes the pain of sense. Some theologians say that not every soul is punished with this further pain, on the premise that it may be God's will to chastise certain people only with the pain of loss.

Theologically, there is less clarity about the nature of this pain of sense. Writers in the Latin tradition are quite unanimous that the fire of purgatory is real and not metaphorical. They argue from the common teaching of the Latin Fathers, of some Greek Fathers, and of certain papal statements like that of Pope Innocent IV, who spoke of "a transitory fire" (DB 456). Nevertheless, at the union council of Florence, the Greeks were not required to abandon the opposite opinion, that the fire of purgatory is not a physical reality.

We do not know for certain how intense are the pains in purgatory. St. Thomas Aquinas held that the least pain in purgatory was greater than the worst in this life. St. Bonaventure said the worst suffering after death was greater than the worst on earth, but the same could not be said regarding the least purgatorial suffering.

Theologians commonly hold, with St. Robert Bellarmine, that in some way the pains of purgatory are greater than those on earth. At least objectively the loss of the beatific vision after death, is worse than its non-possession now. But on the subjective side, it is an open question. Probably the pains in purgatory are gradually diminished, so that in the latter stages we could not compare sufferings on earth with the state of a soul approaching the vision of God.

Parallel with their sufferings, the souls also experience intense spiritual joy. Among the mystics, St. Catherine of Genoa wrote, "It seems to me there is no joy comparable to that of the pure souls in purgatory, except the joy of heavenly beatitude." There are many reasons for this happiness. They are absolutely sure of their salvation. They have faith, hope and great charity. They know themselves to be in divine friendship, confirmed in grace and no longer able to offend God.

Although the souls in purgation perform supernatural acts, they cannot merit because they are no longer in the state of wayfarers, nor can they increase in supernatural charity. By the same token, they cannot make satisfaction, which is the free acceptance of suffering as compensation for injury, accepted by God on account of the dignity of the one satisfying. The sufferings in purgatory are imposed on the departed, without leaving them the option of "free acceptance" such as they had in mortal life. They can only make "satispassion" for their sins, by patiently suffering the demand of God's justice.

The souls in purgatory can pray, and, since impetration is the fruit of prayer, they can also impetrate. The reason is that impetration does not depend on strict justice as in merit, but on divine mercy. Moreover, the impetratory power of their prayers depends on their sanctity.

It is therefore highly probable that the poor souls can impetrate a relaxation of their own (certainly of other souls') sufferings. But they do not do this directly; only indirectly in obtaining from God the favor that the Church might pray for them and that prayers offered by the faithful might be applied to them.

However, it is not probable but certain that they can pray and impetrate on behalf of those living on earth. They are united with the Church Militant by charity in the Communion of Saints. At least two councils approved the custom of invoking the faithful departed. According to the Council of Vienne, they "assist us by their suffrages." And in the words of the Council of Utrecht, "We believe that they pray for us to God." St. Bellarmine wrote at length on the efficacy of invoking the souls in purgatory. The Church has formally approved the practice, as in the decree of Pope Leo XIII granting an indulgence for any prayer in which the intercession of the faithful departed is petitioned (Acta Sanctae Sedis, 1889-90, p.743).

A Problem

A major problem arises regarding the forgiveness of venial sins in a person who is dying in the state of grace. When and how are they remitted? Is the forgiveness before death? If so, by what right? What has the person done to deserve forgiveness, since it is not likely God would remove the guilt of sins that were not repented of. Or is it after death? But then how can this take place, since ex hypothesi the person can no longer merit or truly satisfy, but can only suffer to remove the reatus poenae

According to one theory (Alexander of Hales), venial sins are always removed in this life through the grace of final perseverance, even without an act of contrition. Remission takes place "in the very dissolution of body and soul," when concupiscence is also extinguished. Few theologians look on this opinion favorably, both because there is nothing in the sources to suggest that final perseverance remits guilt, and because everything indicates the need for some human counterpart in the remission of sin.

Others claim (e.g., St. Bonaventure) that forgiveness occurs in purgatory itself by a kind of "accidental merit" which allows for the removal of guilt and not only satispassion in virtue of Divine Justice. If anything, this theory is less probable than the foregoing because it presumes there is a possibility of merit after death.

Blessed Dun Scotus and the Franciscan school say the deletion takes place either in purgatory or at the time of death. If in purgatory, it is on the assumption that the expiating venial sins is nothing more than remitting the penalty they deserve; if at the time of death, it could be right at the moment the soul leaves the body or an instant after. In any case, Scotists postulate that remission occurs because of merits previously gained during life on earth. This position is not much favored because it seems to identify habitual sin with its penalty and claim that venial sins are remissible without subjective penance.

The most common explanation is that venial sins are remitted at the moment of death, through the fervor of a person's love of God and sorrow for his sins. For although a soul on leaving the body can no longer merit or make real satisfaction, it can retract its sinful past. Thus, it leaves its affection for sin and, without increasing in sanctifying grace or removing any penalty (as happens in true merit), it can have deleted the reatus culpae The latter is incompatible with the exalted love of God possessed by a spirit that leaves the body in divine friendship but stained with venial faults.

[Mr Rogers]

1 Corinthians 8

1Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.

4Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

7However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

[bdeaner]

Romans 7:1-4:
Do you not know, brethren--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law is binding on a person only during his life? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies she is discharged from the law concerning her husband. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God.

St. John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) says that the comparison which St. Paul makes here shows great respet for the Mosaic Law:

"Paul speaks of the Law as a husband, and of the faithful as a wife. But his conclusion is not consistent with what he said earlier, because he should go on to conclude: the Law will rule you no more, because the Law is dead. However,[...] in order not to provoke the Jews he simply says, 'You have died to the Law'" (Hom. on Rom, 12).

Prior to the Resurrection, St. Paul and those he is addressing were subject to the Law (represented by the husband). Once they have been given a share in the death of Christ, through Baptism (cf. 6:3-4), they are "dead", and therefore they are free of the Law--free, however, to do good, to yield the fruit of a holy life, that is, to "bear fruit" for God, by being united to Christ.

Now, let's look even more closely at what St. Paul wrote in this passage. In verse 4, he says that we "have died to the law through the Body of Christ"! What is the Body of Christ? What does it mean to "die" to the old Mosaic Law and to be "born again" in the Body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 12:12-14 describes it like this:
"The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many."

To die to the Law through the Body of Christ is to become part of the Church. There is organization to the body of Christ, as described in Ephesians 1:22-23, "And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way."

1 Corinthians 12:27-28 also says, "Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues." Every Christian possesses a gift and is called to use it in service within the body to build up the body of Christ, to strengthen the body and to carry out its purpose within the world. Each member of the body of Christ is also called to serve the church through his or her natural gifts and abilities.

Let's read further:

Romans 7:5
While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

In this as in other Pauline texts, the term "flesh" refers to human weakness and therefore to man's condition after original sin, the origin of his concupiscence, that is, the disordered passions which encourage him to sin.
7:6
But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.

The grace of Christ liberates man from the tyranny of sin. After Adam's original sin, no one, without grace, could avoid sin completely. With the help of grace a person can aspire to serve God of his own free will, not out of fear of punishment but out of filial love (cf. 2 Cor. 3:6), not because of the threats contained in the Old Testament but with the new energy bestowed by divine filiation. This is the freedom of spirit which Christians practice: they do what God wants because they too want it!

As St. Augustine wrote in De spiritu et littera,

"We [...] hold that man's will is helped by God to act correctly in many ways, because man, in addition to having been created with free will and having doctrine which teaches him how he ought to live, has also been given the Holy Spirit. The Spirit inspires his soul with love for highest and immutable Good, that is, God, [...] so that with this grace, which is as it were a pledge of the future free gift, he might be stirred to unite himself to his Creator and have a burning desire to share in the true light. And so he will receive fulfilment from him who gave him his life."

In Romans 7, Paul continues in verses 7-13:

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, wrought in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died; the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, deceived me and by it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good.

Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, working death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandmentmight become sinful beyond measure.

Now we have the full context of this passage. The newness of the Christian life contrasts with the letter of the Law of Moses. The Law brought on death (v. 5), even though it was not in itself bad (cf. Rom 3:20; 4:15; 5:13, 20). The Apostle mentions two other factors along with the Law--sin and man himself. He shows how these interconnect: the "Law" is the Law of Moses, although it can also refer to the commandment God gave our first parents (v. 11); "sin" is presented as a seducer opposed to God, and it can also mean Adam's original sin and all that flowed from it, especially covetousness--evil desires, or concupiscence (vv. 7-8); the "I" in vv. 7-13 can be taken as meaning Paul himself before his conversion, or mankind in general before the Redemption, of Jews subject to the Mosaic Law.

The Law is not bad; on the contrary, it is holy, just and good (cf. v. 12). It is, St. John Chrysostom suggests, like a doctor who forbids a sick person to eat something harmful: if despite this the sick person eats it, it is not the doctor who is to be blamed. The Law is good because it is a gift from God, it is directed towards him, it reveals the right order established by divine wisdom, it prohibits all evils, it helps man to see where his duty lies and, above all, it prepares the way for the coming of the Redeemer (Rom. 3:19f; 5:20; Gal 3:19,24). However, the Law is not enough: it does not equip a person to conquer sin. This inadequacy of the Law paradoxically shows up its value: it leads us to have recourse to Christ's grace and supernatural resources.

In this connection the Fathers of the Church insist that the Law only brings on sin by making people realize the gravity of their actions, thereby increasing their guilt. "Before the Law," St. John Chrysostom comments, "sinners well knew that they were sinning; but after the Law they know it much better [...]. Thus, one is much mroe at fault when one sins not only against the light of reason but also against that light and against the Law, which adds a still greater clarity to the light of reason."

But this should not make us feel pessimistic. In spite of everything the consciousness of the evil of sin which the Law provides leads us to seek the grace of God. "By this promise, that is, through the help of divine grace," St. Augustine says, "the Law is perfectly obeyed...The Law was given so that grace might be sought; and the grace was given so that the Law might be obeyed" (De spiritu et littera).

Given this reading of St. Paul's letter, purgatory makes sense, because through grace we yearn to be obedient to the Lord's will, and to live up to his ideal for us as members of the Body of Christ living in faith, hope and charity. To the extent that we fall short of fulfilling our role in the Body of Christ, through temptation or otherwise, we suffer the pangs of regret by which we can again seek the Lord's grace to become still more holy. The anguish we experience has a purifying function, by which we grow closer to our Lord, in preparation for the beatific vision.

[Nosterrex]

If you mean the autographs, those don't exist. If you mean the original languages, there are plenty of Greek NT Bibles around as well as the Vulgata. As far as I know, the Roman Catholic Church doesn't print Bibles. The United Bible Society is a good place to start.

Ever since St. Jerome translated the Bible into Latin from the Greek, the Vulgata was the ONLY version of the Bible that you were allowed to read. The problem with the Vulgata is that it mistranslated the Greek and led to the development of odd teachings, such as marriage as a sacrament. It is interesting that in the modern translation of the Vulgata, marriage is no longer called a sacramentum but a mysterion.

During the Renaissance, you had a rebirth of the classical languages, including Greek. When scholars started reading the original language, they realized that the Vulgata was not accurate and was misleading in many areas. Without the rebirth of classical education, the Reformation would never have occurred. The Eastern Orthodox Church has always allowed the liturgy and the readings to be done in the native language of the people. It was only the Roman Catholic Church that insisted that the liturgy be conducted in Latin and only the Vulgata be used. Today, the Roman Catholic Church has completely reversed itself (which is not unusual). The Roman Catholic Church burned people at the stake for reading the Bible in their own language, but now it's perfectly acceptable. The Mass can now be conducted in the language of the people. Nearly all of the English versions of the Bible are translated from the original languages, not the Vulgata. Textual criticism has greatly improved since the days of St. Jerome, and no one, not even the Roman Catholics, us the Vulgata as a primary source.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Yes, I had already posted how there were disagreements regarding this between Paul and (James, Peter and John.) Pauld doesn't seem to think too highly of these pillars.

Galatians 2:6,9
⁶   But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

⁹   And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
¹⁰   Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Paul must have forgotten about this part:
²⁰   But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

[Mr Rogers]

St. John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) says that the comparison which St. Paul makes here shows great respet for the Mosaic Law:

"Paul speaks of the Law as a husband, and of the faithful as a wife. But his conclusion is not consistent with what he said earlier, because he should go on to conclude: the Law will rule you no more, because the Law is dead. However,[...] in order not to provoke the Jews he simply says, 'You have died to the Law'" (Hom. on Rom, 12).

If I have to choose between John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) and Paul, I'll go with Paul. It isn't the Law that dies, but we that die to the Law. The Law goes on, directing men to Christ, praise God! And like Paul, I'm convinced the Law is perfect.

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; 8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; 9the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. 10More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. 11Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.

The Law was given so that grace might be sought; and the grace was given so that the Law might be obeyed"

We died to the Law. However, "I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Given this reading of St. Paul's letter, purgatory makes sense, because through grace we yearn to be obedient to the Lord's will, and to live up to his ideal for us as members of the Body of Christ living in faith, hope and charity. To the extent that we fall short of fulfilling our role in the Body of Christ, through temptation or otherwise, we suffer the pangs of regret by which we can again seek the Lord's grace to become still more holy. The anguish we experience has a purifying function, by which we grow closer to our Lord, in preparation for the beatific vision.

I agree, except for the part about Purgatory making sense. For when we die, the flesh dies. The battle will be finished in our lives.

51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

"Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Given the choice of Paul or James, Peter and John, I pick James, Peter and John.

[Kolokotronis]

“If there is no purgatory, per Orthodox doctrine, there is no reason to pray for the dead. They would be in Hell without possibility of redemption, or in Heaven, without need of redemption. Praying for the dead implies the doctrine of purgatory, it seems to me, whether or not one rejects the term.”

No so. After the “Particular Judgment”, the soul remains in the “Place of the Dead” or “Hades” or the “Bosom of Abraham”; in any event, the soul rests, we hope,”...in a place of light, in a place of green pasture, in a place of refreshment, from where pain and sorrow and mourning are fled away.” until the Last Jugment. And in the end, b, it is only by God’s mercy that any join the sheep.

[bdeaner]

Unless you believe that believers in Heaven will behave thus

Is it not a parable about heaven, not about what literally happens in heaven?

[bdeaner]

No so. After the “Particular Judgment”, the soul remains in the “Place of the Dead” or “Hades” or the “Bosom of Abraham”; in any event, the soul rests, we hope,”...in a place of light, in a place of green pasture, in a place of refreshment, from where pain and sorrow and mourning are fled away.” until the Last Jugment. And in the end, b, it is only by God’s mercy that any join the sheep.

Wow, that sure seems like hair-splitting to me. The process of pain and sorrow and mourning being 'fled away' doesn't seem to necessarily conflict with purgatory -- a purification by which temporal consequences of sin -- pain, sorrow, mourning, etc. -- are also 'fled away,' in a certain sense, through purgation.

[bdeaner]

If I have to choose between John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) and Paul, I'll go with Paul.

St. John Chrysostom is not contradicting Paul; he's performing an exegesis of Paul's letter, just as you are doing. My exegesis, which draws upon Chrysostom and Augustine's work on Paul's letter to the Romans, is an illustration of the Catholic reading of Paul's letter. What's interesting is that our readings are very similar.

I agree, except for the part about Purgatory making sense. For when we die, the flesh dies. The battle will be finished in our lives.

Well, yes, the temptation to sin is gone, but the soul lives on and here is the key: the soul does not forget his or her sins! The regrets can live on after death, but worse still, in death, there is no longer antyhing that can be done to repent for them! A temporal consequence of that unresolved sin -- among the saved -- is pangs of regret, that are purified and cleansed as of by "fire" in the burning heat of God's love.

Why is this so objectionable to so many Protestants? I think it is beautiful. All suffering takes on a redemptive quality; I can offer it up to the cross and participate in the redemptive power of the Lord's sacrifice--which is actually very humbling, and unites me to our Lord in profound humility. Is it not in our brokenness that we come to most truly know the grace of Our Lord's infinite sacrifice? At it's most theologically pure, the doctrine of purgatory is nothing more than an explication of the implication of the profound insight into the Lord's redemptive sacrifice and our participation in His sacrificial Body as a member of His Church, both here and in the next life.

[Mr Rogers]

You aren’t given the choice. It is all, or none. As Luther points out, James and Paul agree. And Peter was the one who found it out, and John who wrote the 3rd chapter...

[Kolokotronis]

“Wow, that sure seems like hair-splitting to me.”

Really? Its what The Church has always believed. Whatever hair splitting may have gone on finds its origins in the innovative (and lucrative) theological monstrosity of purgatory which was, as you must know, among the precipitating causes of the Great Schism and later on, the shattering of the Church in the West in the Protestant Reformation.

One cannot believe in something like purgatory and be an Orthodox Christian.

[boatbums]

I think we have a deep disagreement regarding the purpose of suffering in a Christian's life and the world in general.

First of all, why is there suffering in this world, why do the innocent suffer, why do bad things happen to good people, etc.? We live in a fallen world. Because of the sin of Adam, this world (the physical world) as well as humans, became subject to death. There is degeneration, disorder, degradation, disease, death, rot, rust, weeds, putrification, decomposition, etc. It is a consequence of a fallen world. It is never to be mistaken for heaven.

Do innocents suffer? Yes, both as a result of actions of human depravity (abortion, child abuse, murder,etc.) and the fact that this is a world that will never be perfect again. In fact God says that he will create a new world one day that will be perfect. There will no longer be pain or suffering or tears. God is certainly grieved by this.

Secondly, what is God's purpose for suffering in a Christian's life? I believe, rather than a punishment for, or revenge, or getting even with sins, it is instead a teaching mechanism. An example: If I hammer a nail into my nice new dining room table, I can bewail my stupidity and remove the nail but the table will still have a hole in it and can never be the same. The consequence of my action is the marring of the table, the loss of its beauty, its newness. If I cheat on my husband, the consequence is the guilt, shame, remorse, the loss of his trust and the possible end of my marriage. I suffer because of my sin but only in this life. As a Christian, even a grave sin such as adultery is paid for by the blood of Christ. I can never pay the eternal price for even one sin, much less all the ones I have committed or will commit. This by no means is meant to say I have a license to sin. Because my Heavenly Father knows everything and nothing is hidden from His sight. He will discipline, not punish. And this discipline is not pleasant. He brings this correction because He loves me and wants what is best for my life. He also wants the return of fellowship that sin has cut off. Another purpose of suffering in a believer's life is to strengthen faith. I have known loss and need. I know what being dead broke and hungry feels like. I also have seen how God provides, even miraculously, when I trust Him. I have a promise from the Lord that no trial or temptation will come that he will not give me the grace and strength to endure and make it through. Trials and sufferings make me stronger emotionally and spiritually. When others see a Christian suffer without complaining or saying, "Why me?" , they can be influenced to seek the reasons why in spite of pain a person still trusts God, still has peace. That people were martyred for their faith and endured the most horrible deaths is a testimony to their true commitment to God.

These are just a few points where I wanted to express how we see suffering differently. You may see it as a co-payment for sin, I see it entirely with a greater purpose.

[Dajjal]

bumpus ad summum

[boatbums]

Regarding Luther: I don't know of any Protestant that says Martin Luther was infallible or any ordinary man, for that matter. His writings are certainly informative and well reasoned, like Calvin's - but no one thinks they are correct on everything they ever said. They grew in knowledge just as you say the Magisteriam doesn't know all things.

I don't recall ANY of Jesus’ words that prove He honored the Deuterocannonical Books. He did, however quote frequently from just about every other book in the OT. Do you have reference verses where Jesus quotes the Deuterocannonical Books?

[bdeaner]

Its what The Church has always believed.

You are really very wrong on this. The Hebrews clearly believed in purgatory, as is evidenced in Maccabees, as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning "until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy" (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.

There is much evidence for the doctrine of Purgatory among the early Church Fathers.

The Acts of Paul and Thecla

"And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again received her [Thecla]. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: ‘Mother, you shall have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the righteous’" (Acts of Paul and Thecla [A.D. 160]).

Abercius

"The citizen of a prominent city, I erected this while I lived, that I might have a resting place for my body. Abercius is my name, a disciple of the chaste Shepherd who feeds his sheep on the mountains and in the fields, who has great eyes surveying everywhere, who taught me the faithful writings of life. Standing by, I, Abercius, ordered this to be inscribed: Truly, I was in my seventy-second year. May everyone who is in accord with this and who understands it pray for Abercius" (Epitaph of Abercius [A.D. 190]).

The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity

"[T]hat very night, this was shown to me in a vision: I [Perpetua] saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid color, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age, who died miserably with disease. . . . For him I had made my prayer, and between him and me there was a large interval, so that neither of us could approach to the other . . . and [I] knew that my brother was in suffering. But I trusted that my prayer would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then . . . I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me. Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me: I saw that the place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright; and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. . . . [And] he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment" (The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity 2:3–4 [A.D. 202]).

Tertullian

"We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death—birth into eternal life]" (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).

"A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice" (Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216]).

Cyprian of Carthage

"The strength of the truly believing remains unshaken; and with those who fear and love God with their whole heart, their integrity continues steady and strong. For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace [i.e., reconciliation] is given. Yet virginity is not therefore deficient in the Church, nor does the glorious design of continence languish through the sins of others. The Church, crowned with so many virgins, flourishes; and chastity and modesty preserve the tenor of their glory. Nor is the vigor of continence broken down because repentance and pardon are facilitated to the adulterer. It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord" (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).

Cyril of Jerusalem

"Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out" (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).

Gregory of Nyssa

"If a man distinguish in himself what is peculiarly human from that which is irrational, and if he be on the watch for a life of greater urbanity for himself, in this present life he will purify himself of any evil contracted, overcoming the irrational by reason. If he has inclined to the irrational pressure of the passions, using for the passions the cooperating hide of things irrational, he may afterward in a quite different manner be very much interested in what is better, when, after his departure out of the body, he gains knowledge of the difference between virtue and vice and finds that he is not able to partake of divinity until he has been purged of the filthy contagion in his soul by the purifying fire" (Sermon on the Dead [A.D. 382]).

John Chrysostom

"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them" (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).

"Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extent of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. When the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf" (Homilies on Philippians 3:9–10 [A.D. 402]).

Augustine

"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).

"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).

"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).

Obviously, based on this evidence along (and there is more), the Church has always believed in Purgatory. If the Orthodox Catholics reject it, I chalk it up to the unfortunate error that results when part of the Body of Christ rejects the infallible authority of Peter and His successors. The consequence of that rejection, for the Orthodox, is a slipperly slope into doctrinal error and confusion. I realize you may take offense to that remark, but I wouldn't be Roman Catholic if I believed otherwise, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

[boatbums]

I love the definition of forgiveness as: Giving up my right to get even with someone.

[Marysecretary]

There are ALWAYS consequences for any sin. And it’s in THIS life. If you guys want to go to purgatory, God bless ya. I’m glad we protestants don’t have to face that...LOL.

[Nosterrex]

I don't enjoy confrontation, for I would much rather discuss similarities rather than differences. I can't think of another doctrine in the Roman Catholic Church that creates more controversy than purgatory. I went back and looked in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” to see what it states about the teaching. The whole topic takes less than one full page. You would think that such an important doctrine as purgatory would take far more explanation or attestation than two-thirds of a page.

The teaching is basically that purgatory is purification of the ELECT, so that they may ACHIEVE the holiness necessary to enter heaven. It is based upon the tradition of the Church in which she issued prayers for the dead.

This creates a real problem. First of all, only the Roman Catholic Church has a doctrine of purgatory, so I don't know what tradition it is talking about. Extrapolating from the prayers for the dead the doctrine of purgatory is a huge leap.

The Catechism did list three bible verses: 1 Cor. 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7; Matt 12:31. The first two refer to WORKS being tested by God's judgment, not people. Works based upon false doctrine will not pass God's judgment. Some would include the doctrine of purgatory as being consumed by fire. The interpretation of Matthew 12:31 is so absurd that that I can't believe that it was included. There is a difference between exegesis and eisegesis. The latter is where one reads meaning INTO Scripture rather than obtaining the meaning FROM the Scriptures. Trying to read the doctrine of purgatory INTO these verses is counterproductive. They simply don't support the doctrine. The real issue is that the Lutheran Church and Roman Catholic Church have a cohesive or organic theological system. None of these doctrines exist in isolation. They fit within a matrix. If you change one doctrine, it impacts all the others. The problem isn't just purgatory, it's the whole doctrinal system. You can't talk about purgatory without bringing in the issues of authority or revelation for example. Although I have disagreements with the Roman Catholic Church, I have never doubted that it is part of the Christian church. There is much to appreciate and cherish about her, and I share many of her beliefs.

[Marysecretary]

Man, your church makes it so hard for you to reach heaven. Repent, confess your sins and let God cleanse you HERE on earth. There will BE no purgatory, only heaven or hell. I want to see you in Heaven.