There are so many false statements in what you are saying that I frankly don’t know where to begin. First, though, Catholicism is most certainly a denomination. There are NO Catholics in the earliest Church in the Bible. NONE. They were Jewish followers of Christ for the most part - although there were some Gentiles. Nowhere does Christ refer to the Church as anything but believers in Him - i.e. those who have accepted His Gospel, i.e. his Sheep. (”I know my sheep and they follow me.” John 10:27) While I know the old argument that the Catholic Church uses to try to establish themselves as the “True” or “First” Church, it is set on very shaky ground. A cursory glance through the NT does not support the idea that Peter was the first Pope, nor that Catholicism with its “extra-Biblical” dogmas and creeds the first/true Church. Christ never set up denominations.
I am not a member of a sect, and frankly I am deeply concerned that many Catholics (and perhaps members of other denominations) are counting on a Church to save them. Dangerous territory indeed. Check out John 3:16, and again throughout Scripture where the Gospel is presented plainly: “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14:6. There is no addendum to that Scripture which states “and the Catholic Church”. NONE. It is Christ alone. Any other “Gospel” is heresy - as is stated throughout the Bible. But again, you must understand that the Scriptures trump any creeds, dogma, doctrine, or statements that are extra-Biblical.
As for your complete misunderstanding of the SBC, I can only say that you have been woefully misinformed. No pastor that I have ever met, no official SBC spokesperson, etc... condones/supports abortion. (By the way, your reference to SBC “Parishes” is incorrect as there is no such thing. Parishes are a Catholic set-up. SBC churches are loosely affiliated within the Southern Baptist Convention. They are not “owned” by the SBC in any way. They also do not preach murder.) Where are you getting your information?? Clearly not from a reliable source, I’m afraid.
My point about not relying on a denomination for salvation stands. You seem to be doing it - and I fear for you as I would anyone else who believes that membership in a particular body will buy their way into Heaven. It will not - and that is clearly delineated in Scripture as well. Anyone denying Scripture does so at their peril. You seem to have deliberately misunderstood my point, so I will repeat it here: While one cannot know who will and won’t be saved (God alone draws His own to Him), to believe that one is not going to be saved unless one is a member of a particular denomination is not supported in Scripture. Nor is the flip side of that coin: that one will be saved by membership in a particular body. Remember that Christ warned the Jewish leaders who claimed their birthright and leadership in the Jewish faith as reason for salvation. He reminded them that God could make followers from stones. They were not special nor forgiven because they were members of a particular faith or because of their Jewish “birthright”. Again, Scripture bears this out.
I pray you will seek the Truth and not trust your salvation to membership in a particular Church.
You wrote:
“First, though, Catholicism is most certainly a denomination.”
Wrong. The Catholic Church, being founded by Christ, cannot be a denomination. It is logically impossible. Strictly speaking only Protestant sects and pseudo Christian groups like the Mormons can be denominations. The Catholic Church is a Church, THE CHURCH, and not a denomination.
“There are NO Catholics in the earliest Church in the Bible. NONE.”
Actually, they all were.
“They were Jewish followers of Christ for the most part - although there were some Gentiles.”
Exactly so. They were all Catholics drawn from Jewish and Gentile backgrounds but made no creatures in Christ.
“Nowhere does Christ refer to the Church as anything but believers in Him - i.e. those who have accepted His Gospel, i.e. his Sheep.”
Correct - and in AD 33 all of those believers were Catholics. Every last one of them.
“(”I know my sheep and they follow me.” John 10:27) While I know the old argument that the Catholic Church uses to try to establish themselves as the “True” or “First” Church, it is set on very shaky ground. A cursory glance through the NT does not support the idea that Peter was the first Pope, nor that Catholicism with its “extra-Biblical” dogmas and creeds the first/true Church. Christ never set up denominations.”
Again, the Catholic Church is not a denomination nor could it be.
“I am not a member of a sect, and frankly I am deeply concerned that many Catholics (and perhaps members of other denominations) are counting on a Church to save them.”
I have no idea where you’re getting that idea. I can only conclude you misunderstand something. If I am correct, you will respond by bringing up the idea of no salvation outside the Church. That will show you are mistaken.
“Dangerous territory indeed. Check out John 3:16, and again throughout Scripture where the Gospel is presented plainly: “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14:6. There is no addendum to that Scripture which states “and the Catholic Church”. NONE.”
Incorrect. You are making two common errors: 1) You are assuming the Church plays a great role in preaching the gospel. That is how most people through the last 2,000 years learned it in fact. 2) You are mistakenly assuming Christ’s Church must carry the name “Catholic” in scripture for the Catholic Church to be that Church. This is an anachronism. Using your own logic, whatever your church is named, it must be in scripture by exactly that name and no other or it is not of God. Thus, you can only attend two bodies: 1) The Way (wherever you’ll find that) and 2) the Church (not exactly very specific for Protestants. You can’t even call it the Christian Church for no where in scripture does that phrase occur. See how your logic doesn’t work?
“It is Christ alone. Any other “Gospel” is heresy - as is stated throughout the Bible.”
I firmly believe only Christ can save us. And that is EXACTLY what the Catholic Church teaches. http://www.zenit.org/article-5964?l=english
It is the Protestant gospel - which no one heard before 1500 - that is the other gospel and a heresy.
“But again, you must understand that the Scriptures trump any creeds, dogma, doctrine, or statements that are extra-Biblical.”
Actually I believe the Bible is inspired and inerrant. I also believe that the Church in its teachings on faith and morals is also infallible. And the two never contradict one another.
“As for your complete misunderstanding of the SBC, I can only say that you have been woefully misinformed. No pastor that I have ever met, no official SBC spokesperson, etc... condones/supports abortion.”
You’re the one who is confused:
Resolution On Abortion, adopted at the SBC convention, June 1971:
WHEREAS, Christians in the American society today are faced with difficult decisions about abortion; and
WHEREAS, Some advocate that there be no abortion legislation, thus making the decision a purely private matter between a woman and her doctor; and
WHEREAS, Others advocate no legal abortion, or would permit abortion only if the life of the mother is threatened;
Therefore, be it RESOLVED, that this Convention express the belief that society has a responsibility to affirm through the laws of the state a high view of the sanctity of human life, including fetal life, in order to protect those who cannot protect themselves; and
Be it further RESOLVED, That we call upon Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother
Resolution On Abortion And Sanctity Of Human Life, adopted at the SBC convention, June 1974:
WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have historically held a high view of the sanctity of human life, and
WHEREAS, The messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in St. Louis in 1971 adopted overwhelmingly a resolution on abortion, and
WHEREAS, That resolution reflected a middle ground between the extreme of abortion on demand and the opposite extreme of all abortion as murder, and
WHEREAS, That resolution dealt responsibly from a Christian perspective with complexities of abortion problems in contemporary society;
Therefore, be it RESOLVED, that we reaffirm the resolution on the subject adopted by the messengers to the St. Louis Southern Baptist Convention meeting in 1971, and
Be it further RESOLVED, that we continue to seek God’s guidance through prayer and study in order to bring about solutions to continuing abortion problems in our society.
Clearly, in the 1970s, the SBC SUPPORTED THE MURDER OF INNOCENT CHILDREN. PERIOD.
The SBC made more such resolutions in 1976,
Resolution On Abortion, adopted at the SBC convention, June 1976:
Be it further RESOLVED, that we also affirm our conviction about the limited role of government in dealing with matters relating to abortion, and support the right of expectant mothers to the full range of medical services and personal counseling for the preservation of life and health.
Resolution On Abortion, adopted by the SBC convention, June 1977:
RESOLVED that this Convention reaffirm the strong stand against abortion adopted by the 1976 Convention, and, in view of some confusion in interpreting part of this resolution we confirm our strong opposition to abortion on demand and all governmental policies and actions which permit this.
Resolution On Abortion, adopted by the SBC convention, June 1978:
WHEREAS, The Southern Baptist Convention in annual session in 1977 spoke clearly and forthrightly to this issue,
Be it therefore RESOLVED, that we the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Atlanta in June 1978, reaffirm the resolution passed by the 1977 Kansas City Southern Baptist Convention.
Resolution On Abortion, adopted at the SBC convention, June 1979:
Be it further RESOLVED, that we also affirm our conviction about the limited role of government in dealing with matters relating to abortion, and support the right of expectant mothers to the full range of medical services and personal counseling for the preservation of life and health.
WHEREAS, This resolution was reaffirmed in 1978.
Therefore be it RESOLVED, that we affirm the positions taken by these Conventions, and
Be it further RESOLVED, that we urge all Southern Baptists to pray earnestly and work faithfully in dealing with this issue.
Resolution On Abortion, adopted at the SBC convention, June 1980:
Be it finally RESOLVED, That we favor appropriate legislation and/or a constitutional amendment prohibiting abortion except to save the life of the mother.
Resolution On Abortion And Infanticide, adopted at the SBC convention, May 1982:
Be it finally RESOLVED, That we support and will work for appropriate legislation and/or constitutional amendment which will prohibit abortions except to save the physical life of the mother, and that we also support and will work for legislation which will prohibit the practice of infanticide.
And so on, and so on. Murdering babies - for therapeutic reasons - is just dandy with the SBC.
“(By the way, your reference to SBC “Parishes” is incorrect as there is no such thing. Parishes are a Catholic set-up. SBC churches are loosely affiliated within the Southern Baptist Convention. They are not “owned” by the SBC in any way. They also do not preach murder.) Where are you getting your information?? Clearly not from a reliable source, I’m afraid.”
I used the word parish because it made more sense than to say SBC churches. SBC landmarkism does not prohibit the use of the world parish.
“My point about not relying on a denomination for salvation stands.”
Your point does not stand because your making a point in opposition to no counter claim. 1) The Catholic Church is not a denomination. 2) We rely on Christ and how He binds us to Him through His Church. It is not a reliance on the Church as if she were separate from Christ.
“You seem to be doing it - and I fear for you as I would anyone else who believes that membership in a particular body will buy their way into Heaven.”
Your fears are meaningless since they effect nothing and are not related to reality. Since you are, however, so mistaken, you might want to fear for yourself because you are simply not getting what you are condemning right before you condemn it.
“It will not - and that is clearly delineated in Scripture as well. Anyone denying Scripture does so at their peril. You seem to have deliberately misunderstood my point, so I will repeat it here: While one cannot know who will and won’t be saved (God alone draws His own to Him), to believe that one is not going to be saved unless one is a member of a particular denomination is not supported in Scripture.”
And again, who EXACTLY is claiming that? See, this is exactly what I mean. Here you are supposedly correcting me from supposed errors I do not even hold. Does it bother you that you can’t get any of this right thus far? You can’t seem to get the Catholic teaching right. You can’t get what I believe or write right, but your essentially “correctig” me anyway as if you did. So far, I have no gotten anything wrong nor have I misunderstood you in the least. Notice that? Also, notice how I am not imputing to you beliefs you do not actually hold? Do you think you could try to be that rigorous in your apprach to me and actually get things right for a change?
“Nor is the flip side of that coin: that one will be saved by membership in a particular body. Remember that Christ warned the Jewish leaders who claimed their birthright and leadership in the Jewish faith as reason for salvation. He reminded them that God could make followers from stones. They were not special nor forgiven because they were members of a particular faith or because of their Jewish “birthright”. Again, Scripture bears this out.”
And again, who here is claiming what you just supposedly refuted? Not me. Again, can’t you get anything right?
“I pray you will seek the Truth and not trust your salvation to membership in a particular Church.”
Your prayer was answered years ago and that’s why I am not in a sect like you are. Also, your prayer was answered so manifestly that I always get what you say right, do not falsely impute things to you and don’t waste my time refuting things you never even claimed to believe in. How about you pray for the same? Seriously, you’re embarrassing yourself when you claim I believe in things I never EVER claimed!