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To: PugetSoundSoldier
No, the alternative is to believe in the teachings of the Bible and the words of Christ

According to whom? You?

And who would those be? Please explain. I know of no Christian who professes such. They do not claim salvation only through Christ

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as most glaring examples.

Christianity is following the words and teachings of Christ. This should be self-explanatory

According to whose interpretation? Yours?

If it is Biblical, then they are Christians, yes

Adoptionsits say Jesus was not God when he was born, but was adopted by the Father ans made divine. They say his baptism (as narrated by Mark) proves it. Do you know the history of Christianity at all?

You cannot follow teachings that are outside the Bible and call yourself a Christian

I hate to tell you this, but that's exactly what the Christians did for a few centuries before the bible was put together for them by the Church hierarchs. The Church preceded the Bible.

Where does that say in the Bible? And how do you know that? because Martin Luther said so?

No they don't; their beliefs are not supported by the Bible. Much like the belief about the primacy of the pope and his ability to make pronouncements ex cathedra.

Well, they sure do. For instance there is an Evangelical site that claims the Bible doesn't teach Jesus was/is divine. They quote from the Bible.

The primacy of the pope, at least as far as the Catholics are concerned is clearly spelled out in Matthew's Gospel (16:19) and other places in the New Testament. Ex cathdera is an ecclesial and not a biblical issue, and is taken on faith.

But I could surmise that you believe St. Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew. Not only that, I bet you probably believe that he did so under the guidance of the Holy Spirit! How do you know that? Because the Bible says so? The Bible doesn't. None of the Gospels are signed. None claims to be inspired. How is that different than ex-cathedra?

Here's the bottom line: if it's backed up by the Bible, it's Christian. Period. If not, it's not. It's that simple.

But we have so many different sects and cults that use the same Bible and preach a different gospel. So, it's not that simple and it's can't all be Christian because a lot of what these sects preach contradicts the preaching of the other sects and cults.

458 posted on 06/28/2009 5:12:37 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
According to whom? You?

Jesus, in Matthew 23.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as most glaring examples.

And then you would be wrong. Mormons believe salvation is through faith AND works and only through their church (sound familiar?), and Jehovah's Witnesses not only deny that Christ was fully God and fully man, but that again it is by works that you are saved.

Meaning that both deny the teachings and truths found in the Bible about salvation, sola fide.

According to whose interpretation? Yours?

No interpretation needed. Which command or parable of Jesus do you feel needs interpretation?

Adoptionsits say Jesus was not God when he was born, but was adopted by the Father ans made divine. They say his baptism (as narrated by Mark) proves it. Do you know the history of Christianity at all?

Yes, which is clearly not Biblical. Thus those people cannot be Christians, as they deny the words of the Bible and of Christ.

I hate to tell you this, but that's exactly what the Christians did for a few centuries before the bible was put together for them by the Church hierarchs. The Church preceded the Bible.

No, it had the teachings - written and verbal - of Christ, as well as the Old Testament. Please see 2 Thessalonians 2:15 for Paul referring to these same sources.

But we have so many different sects and cults that use the same Bible and preach a different gospel. So, it's not that simple and it's can't all be Christian because a lot of what these sects preach contradicts the preaching of the other sects and cults.

So for you, Christianity is a "democratic" process where we get around and debate and agree what is the meaning of being Christian? What is your foundation for your decision? What do you have outside the Bible, and the words of Christ?

459 posted on 06/28/2009 5:33:41 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: kosta50; PugetSoundSoldier
But we have so many different sects and cults that use the same Bible and preach a different gospel. So, it's not that simple and it's can't all be Christian because a lot of what these sects preach contradicts the preaching of the other sects and cults.

excellently put Kosta. Puget -- THIS is why we disagree so much with sola scriptura. God is difficult to comprehend as an individual, only as a community of believers stretching back 2000 years can we even begin to start to comprehend. As an individual we have no chance, no matter if we try, no matter if we get caught up by The Holy Spirit, because the immensity of God is too much for our tiny minds to comprehend. It's like an ant trying to understand Calculus. In fact the ant is more likely to understand calculus than we as individuals are to comprehend God.

That and only that is the reason why we keep insisting on Apostolic succession, on learning as a Church through millenia.

If you read the early Church fathers like Origen, Tertullian, Augustine, you'll see that they all made mistakes in their understanding. THey didn't have the wealth of knowledge we now have millenia later. Time and mass....
487 posted on 06/28/2009 10:11:35 PM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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