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To: Cronos

Yes, I subscribe to the Patriarchy. However, Patriarchs cannot issue theological fiats. Bishops do not answer to one another individually, they answer Synods of Bishops.

No, to first among equals. Rome and the East are not in communion.


409 posted on 06/28/2009 6:23:10 AM PDT by Yudan (Living comes much easier once we admit we're dying.)
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To: Yudan; Cronos

“No, to first among equals. Rome and the East are not in communion.”

Ah, Yudan, the fact that the Bishop of Rome is presently in schism from the rest of The Church does not change the ecclesiology of The Church. The Bishop of Rome is indeed the first among equals because that is what the Councils declared, though because of the Schism, he cannot exercise that primacy which therefore has fallen to Constantinople de facto.


412 posted on 06/28/2009 6:32:02 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Yudan
The Orthodox Church does not deny the Primacy of the Successor of Peter, the Patriarch of Rome. However, that "Primacy" is interpreted as "First Among Equals" and not "Supreme Infallible Ruler".

And that's something Pope JP II and Pope Benedict are emphasising.

So, if you are Orthodox you would have to state that the Patriarch of the West is the first among equals. This is what was The declaration of Ravenna in 2007 re-asserted and re-stated the notion that the bishop of Rome is indeed the protos, although future discussions are to be held on the concrete ecclesiological exercise of papal primacy. We Catholics ARE open to this discussion.

Let's face facts -- in the centuries between 450 and 800, the Patriarch of the West was the only thing keeping civilisation alive in the West, unlike the East that had the stability of The Empire. Secondly, just like in the East where the Patriarch of Constantinople had control over all the Greeks and the Bulgarians etc. it could be argued the same for the Patriarch of the West (only while in the east you had definied political distinctions between the Basileus in Constantinople and the Tsar of all Bulgaria, you didn't have that in the West)
418 posted on 06/28/2009 6:50:01 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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