[Blogger]

firstly, as repeated ad naueseum, there is no RCC, there is The Church. Secondly, at the time of the Donatists etc. there was no separation between Catholic, Orthodox or Oriental (coptic, Armenian, Ethiopian etc) Churchs, hence there was a united orthodoxy.
Word games. Not interested. The seat of the church was in Rome and they made a very big deal about that, so it is the Roman Catholic Church as opposed to the Greek church or the Russian Church. It is the church emanating from Rome per the fraudulent 'Donation of Constantine'.

Thirdly, there was no persecution by The Church -- as my post tells you, the persecution was conducted by civil authorities -- for Donatists, Constantine didn't like being called the Devil and the DOnatists were supported by an opposing claimant to the Dominus post. ditto for the other heresies.
The Roman Catholic church was a state church. To say that it didn't persecute is ludicrous. When the state acted - often it did so at the instigation of the church. Tell Copernicus and Galileo they never persecuted. Tell any of the groups mentioned.

Finally, if you let a heresy live on, it corrupts innumerable innocents -- cases in point: Mormonism and Islam, both heresies from Christianity and look at what THEY have wrought on the world.
So we burn them at the stake? That was what Christ taught? Scary terrorist faith there.

[Cronos]

Word games. Not interested. The seat of the church was in Rome and they made a very big deal about that, so it is the Roman Catholic Church as opposed to the Greek church or the Russian Church. It is the church emanating from Rome per the fraudulent 'Donation of Constantine'.

So, you're saying the seat of the Church during the Donatist heresy (300 AD) was in Rome? I think the Eastern Orthodox would have something to say about that.

[Cronos]

Word games. Not interested. The seat of the church was in Rome and they made a very big deal about that, so it is the Roman Catholic Church as opposed to the Greek church or the Russian Church. It is the church emanating from Rome per the fraudulent 'Donation of Constantine'.

The Greek Orthodox Church as kosta described has a Metropolitan as it's head. Ditto for the Russian (I think), hence they are in charge of their national Churches. In opposition you have the Patriarch of Alexandria who is the Patriarch of all of Africa. And you have the Pope who is the Patriarch of the West -- ALL of the West outside the other Patriarchates inthe East.

Have you heard of the Catholic Maronite Church by any chance? You do know that the head of That Church is an equal with the Pope? And yes that IS part of The Church.

The Catholic Church consists of all of these, the RCC was an exonym that protesting groups gave to the Mother Church and it is wrong. The correct term is CAtholic Church or simply The Church.

[Cronos]

Cronos: Thirdly, there was no persecution by The Church -- as my post tells you, the persecution was conducted by civil authorities -- for Donatists, Constantine didn't like being called the Devil and the DOnatists were supported by an opposing claimant to the Dominus post. ditto for the other heresies.

Blogger: The Roman Catholic church was a state church. To say that it didn't persecute is ludicrous. When the state acted - often it did so at the instigation of the church.

Firstly, in 300 AD there was no "state Church" -- Constantine only lifted the persecution against the Christians, he did not make it the "state Church". And you do realise that you now include the orthodox and orientals as "The Roman Catholic Church" of you say this was the orthodox church in 300 AD......

Finally, the Church did not prosecute -- didn't you READ my posts? Refer to any articles, read any history books and you'll see that for the Donatists, the persecution was conducted by Constantine and Valentian...

And I gave you adequate examples of WHY the civil authorities did so and it was not at the instigation of the orthodox Church.

[Cronos]

Finally, if you let a heresy live on, it corrupts innumerable innocents -- cases in point: Mormonism and Islam, both heresies from Christianity and look at what THEY have wrought on the world. So we burn them at the stake? That was what Christ taught? Scary terrorist faith there

you then think that if we hadn't curtailed the heresy of Mohammed, nipped it in the bud, then life would be the same?

[Mr Rogers]

“Thirdly, there was no persecution by The Church — as my post tells you, the persecution was conducted by civil authorities — for Donatists, Constantine didn’t like being called the Devil and the DOnatists were supported by an opposing claimant to the Dominus post. ditto for the other heresies.”

“The Roman Catholic church was a state church. To say that it didn’t persecute is ludicrous. When the state acted - often it did so at the instigation of the church. Tell Copernicus and Galileo they never persecuted. Tell any of the groups mentioned.”

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Perhaps this illustration will help clarify:

Thomas Cranmer (http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Thomas_Cranmer)

On the accession of Mary he was summoned to the council - most of whom had signed the same device - reprimanded for his conduct, and ordered to confine himself to his palace at Lambeth until the queen’s pleasure was known. He refused to follow the advice of his friends and avoid the fate that was clearly impending over him by flight to the continent.

Any chance of safety that lay in the friendliness of a strong party in the council was more than nullified by the bitter personal enmity of the queen, who could not forgive his share in her mother’s divorce and her own disgrace. On the 14th of September 1553 he was sent to the Tower, where Ridley and Latimer were also confined.

The immediate occasion of his imprisonment was a strongly worded declaration he had written a few days previously against the mass, the celebration of which, he heard, had been re-established at Canterbury. He had not taken steps to publish this, but by some unknown channel a copy reached the council, and it could not be ignored.

In November, with Lady Jane Grey, her husband, and two other Dudleys, Cranmer was condemned for treason. Renard thought he would be executed, but so true a Romanist as Mary could scarcely have an ecclesiastic put to death in consequence of a sentence by a secular court, and Cranmer was reserved for treatment as a heretic by the highest of clerical tribunals, which could not act until parliament had restored the papal jurisdiction.

Accordingly in March 1554 he and his two illustrious fellow-prisoners, Ridley and Latimer, were removed to Oxford, where they were confined in the Bocardo or common prison. Ridley and Latimer were unflinching, and suffered bravely at the stake on the 16th of October 1555.

Cranmer had been tried by a papal commission, over which Bishop Brooks of Gloucester presided, in September 1555. Brooks had no power to give sentence, but reported to Rome, where Cranmer was summoned, but not permitted, to attend. On the 25th of November he was pronounced contumacious by the pope and excommunicated, and a commission was sent to England to degrade him from his office of archbishop. This was done with the usual humiliating ceremonies in Christ Church, Oxford, on the 14th of February 1556, and he was then handed over to the secular power...

About the same time Cranmer subscribed the first two of his “ recantations.”...

...he was eventually induced to revile his whole career and the Reformation. This is what the government wanted. Northumberland’s recantation had done much to discredit the Reformation, Cranmer’s, it was hoped, would complete the work.

Hence the enormous effect of Cranmer’s recovery at the final scene. On the 21st of March he was taken to St Mary’s church, and asked to repeat his recantation in the hearing of the people as he had promised. To the surprise of all he declared with dignity and emphasis that what he had recently done troubled him more than anything he ever did or said in his whole life; that he renounced and refused all his recantations as things written with his hand, contrary to the truth which he thought in his heart; and that as his hand had offended, his hand should be first burned when he came to the fire.

As he had said, his right hand was steadfastly exposed to the flames. The calm cheerfulness and resolution with which he met his fate show that he felt that he had cleared his conscience, and that his recantation of his recantations was a repentance that needed not to be repented of.

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The state court convicted him of treason. However, he was left alive until the Catholic Church excommunicated him. Only then was sentence carried out.

I don’t think it is right to judge people from long ago with modern standards. I’m certain those people would be appalled at our lack of seriousness about the faith, and bewildered that we WOULDN’T execute a heretic and apostate. Given their willingness to die for their beliefs, I’m not certain we can claim to be their superiors.