Which is no doubt why there is such widespread division and lack of unity on what critical passages in Scripture actually mean amongst those who espouse the "personal interpretation" of Scripture viewpoint. I guess they're just too easy to understand. Or maybe it's because we're not 14?
FWIW, you may be interested to know that Scripture itself disagrees with you. Read 2Peter. Speaking of the letters of St. Paul, St. Peter apparently didn't get your memo. For he states;
And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
2Peter3:15-16
So according to St. Peter, there are certain things in Paul's letters which are hard to understand. Where does your assertion about "14 year olds" find its Scriptural basis?
The only hard part about the scriptures is BELIEVING what they say, as you guys can surely attest to...
You're funny.
Why have thousands of Scripture scholars toiled through the centuries up until this very day in order to deepen our understanding of Scripture? What fools! What a waste of time! It's all so easy. Just ask your average 14 year old.
You mean like the creation story in Genesis??? I immediately dismiss your religion's unbelief in the creation story and your religion's connection with Darwin...I believe what God said...And no doubt, so did many of your 'early' church fathers... When you guys claim that God didn't mean what he says or you add and take away words from a scripture to prove what you say is true, I throw that out with the dirty bathwater...
No, that's not what I'm referring to. You blithely dismiss the opinions of doctors of the Church and the accumulated wisdom of scholars down through the centuries.
My question asked whether you were equally quick to dismiss the accumulated wisdom in other areas of the human endeavor, such as science or philosophy for instance. Have you come to accept Newton's Laws yet, or are they baloney, too?
You said these saints confirmed that Mary never had more children...Then you use Moses and Elijah to confirm this???
Please. Don't be deliberately dense.
I stated that one of the pieces of evidence that Mary never had more children was the writings of mystics and saints.
You scoffed about talking with the dead and made references to crystal balls and tarot cards. I replied that the scriptural example of Jesus and the three apostles conversing with Moses and Elijah indicated that there was nothing novel about the living conversing with holy men who had departed this life.
I shouldn't have to say this but the encounter of Jesus, Peter, James and John with Moses and Elijah is not evidence that Mary had no more children but that mystical experiences with saints and holy men is not without precedent in Scripture.
Really, what saints told you guys that Mary had no other children???
There's a list of some of the more well known mystics right here. It's by no means extensive but many of those listed have written on the Blessed Virgin.
Of course...Jesus endured temptation...You think you can tempt God??? God has told you otherwise...
Jesus was tempted in the desert by Satan. Temptation is not synonymous with sin. What does that have to do with sinful flesh giving rise to sinless flesh?
There are many incidents in the OT where the Angel of the Lord, which is Jesus, took on the appearance of a man...In that case, what you claim about Jesus is accurate...But when Jesus actually became flesh and blood, he got all the things that come with it...
Including sinfulness?
BTW, a couple of "minor" points. Jesus is the incarnate son of God born of Mary. The OT predates that.
Also, an angel of the Lord is not Jesus. An angel is an angel. Don't confuse the two.
I didn't say AN Angel of the Lord...I said THE Angel of the Lord...And yes, a 14 year old kid knows the difference between an and the...How did your church fathers/scholars/mystics miss it??
You scoffed about talking with the dead and made references to crystal balls and tarot cards. I replied that the scriptural example of Jesus and the three apostles conversing with Moses and Elijah indicated that there was nothing novel about the living conversing with holy men who had departed this life.
Not novel??? May not be very novel in you religion but it's very novel in the word of God...
Weird...You apparently are trying to correct me with scripture but the second time now you have to 'change' the scripture to get it to mean what you want it to mean...
John and Peter and James did NOT converse with Moses and Elias...No one but the 'glorified' Jesus conversed with the Prophets...There goes your wild theory...
FWIW, you may be interested to know that Scripture itself disagrees with you. Read 2Peter. Speaking of the letters of St. Paul, St. Peter apparently didn't get your memo. For he states;
And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 2Peter3:15-16
So according to St. Peter, there are certain things in Paul's letters which are hard to understand. Where does your assertion about "14 year olds" find its Scriptural basis?
What makes you think he's talking to me, and not you...So you apparently take that to mean that the scriptures are difficult and hard to understand so a person must be an intellectual, highly educated scholar to understand the 8th grade language, eh???
Well, I got news for ya...Bad news...The verse doesn't say the scripture is so difficult it's hard for the younger and less educated to understand...It says there are 'certain things' which are hard, not impossible to understand and since you guys always jump to that verse to prove something that isn't true, I'd say it applies to your crew...
There's a list of some of the more well known mystics right here. It's by no means extensive but many of those listed have written on the Blessed Virgin.
I didn't see Joseph Smith's name in there...He's every bit a mystic that your guys are...Lotsa mystics out there...One famous one was Edgar Cayce...Is he on the list???
In the scriptures, your mystics are called prophets, or Doctors of Devination...
Deu 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
You can keep 'em...I don't want anything to do with them...