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The papacy 1,000 years ago
National Catholic Reporter ^
| June 22, 2009
| Richard McBrien
Posted on 06/22/2009 7:28:34 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy
what exactly DO you read in McB's thesis? I just read a reading of history:
1. he says that the Papacy in 1000 AD was different from today because there was a Pope who abdicated. That's a fact that Pope John XVIII DID abdicate (as the article says, we don't know why). Can a Pope of today abdicate? Theoretically, yes, but that doesn't happen, but it CAN. So, what's the difference?? Sheesh. Nixon resigned, Obama hasn't, so can we say that the Presidency of the 21st century is different from the Presidency of the 1970s?
2. The reforms of Pope Sylvester. We know there have been reformers WITHIN The Church for centuries -- read about St. Francis and what he did within The Church, quite unlike Luther.
3. then he lists the things that Pope John did -- ok, what's wrong with that?
Overall this article is an article recites what Fr. McB sees as history.
121
posted on
06/24/2009 7:23:35 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: marshmallow; Iscool
Did not Jesus take Peter, James and John with him up Tabor and converse with Moses and Elijah? The three Apostles saw both Moses and Elijah for Peter said to Jesus, "Let us make three tents......" Or was that "Tarot card" stuff as well?
Yes of course, Iscool knows all. iscool is the omniscient one
122
posted on
06/24/2009 7:26:05 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: Cronos
Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Comment #124 Removed by Moderator
To: Claud; Dr. Eckleburg
In the Middle East, EVEN TODAY, you call your cousin (1st or 2nd or any clansman), your brother. It’s just the way they use the language. the problem is that many sola scripturas read the Bible from the perspective of twentieth century Americana suburbia.
125
posted on
06/24/2009 7:41:44 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: marshmallow; Iscool
Also, an angel of the Lord is not Jesus. An angel is an angel. Don't confuse the two.
Good catch. Iscool, how can you believe that? As you say "There are many incidents in the OT where the Angel of the Lord, which is Jesus, took on the appearance of a man"
126
posted on
06/24/2009 7:46:08 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: Iscool; marshmallow
There's a very long line of learned and holy men since the group you mention who disagree with your heroes...
Which list? Does it start off somewhere in the 1500s
127
posted on
06/24/2009 7:50:09 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: Religion Moderator
you’re right, please delete my post #124. I’ve depersonalized it
128
posted on
06/24/2009 7:50:52 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: marshmallow; Iscool
Jesus was conceived in the womb of the Blessed Virgin.
For the record, Jesus' life did not begin in Mary's womb. Jesus is The Creator, Word, God, I AM.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. - John 1:1-3 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17
And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: - Ephesians 3:9
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58
As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. - John 18:6
God's Name is I AM.
To: Cronos
You wrote:
“you have the Bible according to Luther, but do you have the Bible according to Quix?”
That’s one version I don’t have!!! Is it the newest NIV? ;)
130
posted on
06/24/2009 8:10:43 AM PDT
by
vladimir998
(Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
To: vladimir998
no, no, you take any Bible, reinterpret anything you want, toss out any parts you don’t like, even chop verses as per your taste. It’s sola scriptura baby!
131
posted on
06/24/2009 8:34:11 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: vladimir998
no, no, you take any Bible, reinterpret anything you want, toss out any parts you don’t like, even chop verses as per your taste. It’s sola scriptura baby!
132
posted on
06/24/2009 8:34:17 AM PDT
by
Cronos
(Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
To: Alamo-Girl; Iscool
For the record, Jesus' life did not begin in Mary's womb. For the record, the Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit existed from all time and will have no end.
The second person of that Trinity, the Son, became incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary and was given the name Jesus, according to the instruction of the angel.
The Incarnation was a historical event and Jesus was a historical person.
Jesus has a birthday. We celebrate it at Christmas. We also celebrate the day of His conception; the day when the Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and asked for her agreement to God's plan. It's called "The Annunciation" in the Catholic Church.
Prior to the Son taking on human form and coming to Earth, there was no Jesus.
Happy to have helped.
133
posted on
06/24/2009 8:57:50 AM PDT
by
marshmallow
("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
To: marshmallow; Iscool
Thank you for sharing your testimony and insights, dear marshmallow!
Prior to the Son taking on human form and coming to Earth, there was no Jesus.
God is not time-bound, we are. Time is part of the Creation, not a property or restriction on the Creator.
For instance, Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. He is always the Lamb of God, thus His sacrifice is perfection. Unlike the blood of a mere mortal, His blood never fades, never fails, never runs out.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. - Revelation 13:8 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. - Revelation 5:6
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. - Hebrews 10:14
My next remark could provoke a debate over ancient manuscripts and translations. That is not my intent, however, I must return to this Scripture because I mentioned it earlier:
And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: - Ephesians 3:9
In this translation, the Greek text upon which it is based and its derivatives over the years, Jesus Christ is specifically named (emphasis mine:)
Kai phōtizō pas phōtizō tis koinōnia mystērion ho apo aiōn apokryptō en theos ho ktizō pas dia Iēsous Christos
In another line of ancient manuscripts upon which the Vulgate is based and its derivatives, the Name of Jesus Christ is omitted:
et inluminare omnes quae sit dispensatio sacramenti absconditi a saeculis in Deo qui omnia creavit
To see all of them in contrast: click here Notwithstanding translations, the bottom line is that God's Name I AM is Truth regardless of when, or in what language, He announced that Name to us mere time-bound mortal creatures.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14
Likewise His Name Jesus is Truth timelessly - regardless of when and what language He revealed that Name to Mary:
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. - Luke 1:31
Man is not the measure of God. To God be the glory, not man, never man.
To: Campion
Uh, did he have a stepmother?
135
posted on
06/24/2009 5:29:46 PM PDT
by
Marysecretary
(GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
To: killermosquito
(shhhhh. don’t confuse them with facts.)
136
posted on
06/24/2009 5:31:45 PM PDT
by
Marysecretary
(GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
To: Piers-the-Ploughman
No human is infallible, including the Pope and the Saints. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
137
posted on
06/24/2009 5:34:45 PM PDT
by
Marysecretary
(GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
To: Iscool
He was tempted in every way as we were. How else could He understand humanity? He just didn’t give in to that temptation as we are prone to do.
138
posted on
06/24/2009 5:36:47 PM PDT
by
Marysecretary
(GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
To: MarkBsnr
Many others like her have gone to Elim and gone on to do great things for the Lord. We have kids in our church who have gone to Elim and have gone out into the world as missionaries and teachers. It’s a good place. And certainly not a cult.
139
posted on
06/24/2009 5:39:55 PM PDT
by
Marysecretary
(GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
To: Cronos
Rather sola scripura than the traditions of man as in your church.
140
posted on
06/24/2009 5:44:11 PM PDT
by
Marysecretary
(GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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