Interesting, you say being well grounded in the Bible allows you to detect that Jesus is a fraud? My take on the NT is that it teaches that Jesus is real.
I find it hard to believe you believe that Jesus is a fraud. If Jesus appeared to you, you would really call Him a fraud and reject Him?
***I find it hard to believe you believe that Jesus is a fraud. If Jesus appeared to you, you would really call Him a fraud and reject Him?***
Must I set down and explain it to you like you were a little child?
When you are well grounded in the BIBLE and someone suddenly claims to be a prophet or Jesus you wIll be able to detect the fraud because they DO NOT MEET THE BIBLE QUALIFICATIONS! Joe’s “Jesus” does not meet these qualifications. The other frauds at that time did not meet the qualifications and were sent packing.
Charlie Manson did not meet the qualifications! Neither did the other frauds who have popped up in just the last 50 years. Same for so-called prophets!
We are instructed to “test every spirit” in the NT. Following that particular instruction is something that Joey Smith manifestly FAILED to do on the very basis of the omission of any mention of any kind of questioning or testing from any of the several highly controversial accounts of his “vision”.
Did he see a bloody “Spanish pirate” ghost, did he see G_d the Father, did he see Christ, did he see both of them...?
Or did he in fact (if he saw anything at all - ever) see one or more demonic manifestations?
It is not possible to know - not even for Smith himself. He did not question the personage (or personages) as to identity.
One figure gestures towards the other, saying “This is my son, listen to him”. Who is this “father” that is pointing toward his son? Who is the son?
You can assume that it was G_d the Father and Christ the Son...
Oh wait, no you cannot either! It is not only impossible, but also impermissible to make such an assumption. Moses had never come face to face with G_d before, and was allowed to question with whom he spoke - remember?
Whom shall I tell them...?
“Tell them ‘I AM that I AM’ hath sent thee...”
I shouldn’t have to draw the whole picture here for reasonable and intelligent people.
There are spiritual laws which govern the spiritual world, just like there are physical laws governing the physical world.
Within those laws, as the “prince of the power of the air” Satan has a broad amount of latitude to operate; he can manifest himself in many different ways, and say or do many things in order to effect a deception, but of all the lies he can and does tell, he cannot claim to be G_D himself, and he (and/or his fallen minions - demons as we call them) must identify themselves.
Moreoever, we are told that though “even the demons believe in Jesus Christ...” they tremble and quake “at the sound of His name”.
It is a fact that Joseph Smith NEVER ONCE asked the “father” figure, nor asked the “son” figure “Who are you?”, nor did he ask either of them if they were spirits of G_D, or “other” spirits.
If, according to his account of “the vision” (in any of its 6, 7, 8, forms) Smith assumed that the personage(s) were from G_D, then Smith was patently DECEIVED. He did not know the rules and laws, did not apply them, and was therefore subjected to deception.
Here, then, we are left with a classic “either/or” proposition. Either Joseph Smith failed to do as is proscribed in the Bible and thus was deceived to begin with, or he never had such an actual encounter with any such personages as are described in the multiple “vision” accounts, and made up the story himself from whole cloth, thereby willfully and purposefully deceiving others.
His alleged vision stories do not conform to the biblical convention, anymore than he himself conformed to the clear-cut standard of Deuteronomy (13: 1 - 4, and 18: 19 - 22) for establishing bona fides as a genuine Prophet of G_D.
The spirits allegedly told things which are in direct contradiction to well known Old and New Testament teachings - which no spirit of G_D ever would do
Smith was a liar, or else the spirits were. It is possible that both precepts are correct - both Smith and the personage(s) were lying.
What is crystal clear, is that it cannot be contended that both were speaking the truth. Scripture cannot and will not be “rewritten” without penalty.
A.A.C.