Posted on 06/18/2009 4:02:05 PM PDT by bronxville
“I have been here long enough to know, you ain’t gonna change each others minds. To my fellow Catholics, I offer you this sage advice;
Stop casting pearls before swine.”
Yes, but I’d really like to know where they strayed from the path of their founding protestant reformers. Thusfar I’ve just gotten their own personal opinion.
Pearls before swine...yes, indeed.
So not only will you not ask Maria to pray for you, but you also think she's just a dead human?
Is this the type of nonsense your pastors teach you?
I wouldn’t bother, there is no talking to the Marian Worship Cultist. Catholicism I really don’t have issue with, many saved Catholics, but this veneration stuff has been fully debunked, defeated and destroyed by Protestant apologists for hundreds of years but like radical Muslims some Marian cultist stick stubbornly to their dogma. Before JPII this Marian stuff was a little out of style but he brought it back. Jesus said come straight to him for fellowship otherwise he will not know you...period, end of debate. I feel 100% sure in my salvation through Christ alone, I need no intercessor to speak for me, my source....um the scriptures..the infallible word of God, not the musings of some monk 100’s of years ago.
Good news.
>”They all saw it (the apparition of Mary) as a great sign of consolation after the war with Israel (in 1967) that God had not forgotten the people of Egypt,” he said.<
What has not been mentioned is that the church in Zeitoun, Egypt has recently been bombed. I doubt that the Copts did this.
.
>She is recognized as the purified woman chosen to be the mother of the promised Messiah.<
Yet, from the very beginning, Islam has persecuted the followers of the same Person that they recognize as the promised Messiah. Even today Christians do not enjoy religious freedom in muslim counties that Muslims do in the West. I think that Islam owes the West an explanation.
“I don’t know whether Mary was sinless or not, and I’m comfortable with not knowing. All I know is that God found her special, and so do I.”
That’s very sweet. You’re a protestant, right?
Thanks for the link bdeaner - excellent lecture. Biblical consistency.
Go get them, tiger! You’re alright.
This is nothing new. Protestants and Evangelicals have always recognized the unique role of Mary, the mother of Jesus. We called her blessed, just as the scriptures do. She is an example of obedient faith and, like other heroes of the faith, such as the apostles and the martyrs, deserves our respect and a place of honor in our hearts and minds. Nevertheless, we do not venerate her or them. Veneration is reserved for God the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ, by the inner working of the Holy Spirit. And so, too, our prayers are directed to God the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ, by the inner working of the Holy Spirit.
I understand your frustration. You will not get an answer. Historically, there is no continuity. I am a convert (more acurately, a revert). I was a staunch anti catholic for many years. Everything is autonomous outside papal authority. We had many different beliefs within my former congregation on such issues of the rapture, can you lose your salvation, grace and works, and countless other things. These things actually ripped many churches apart and sent many ministers packing because of a churches “vote” and beliefs.
You may end up asking for forgiveness at the moment of your particular judgment (the moment of your death) from Our Lord, Jesus Christ, because you didn’t revere his mother. Even Christ tells you to take care of your mother.
But then, again, it might be too late for you at that moment.
“...but this veneration stuff has been fully debunked, defeated and destroyed by Protestant apologists for hundreds of years...”
Interesting - could you give me some links? When did this happen?
Here’s what John Calvin had to say about the Blessed Mother:
Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s ‘brothers’ are sometimes mentioned.
{Harmony of Matthew, Mark & Luke, sec. 39 (Geneva, 1562), vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, tr. William Pringle, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55}
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called ‘first-born’; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107}
So, did these apologists debunk Calvin, Martin Luther, Zwingli, Wesley, and Bullinger as well? Would really like some links as to this debunking.
**but this veneration stuff has been fully debunked, defeated and destroyed by Protestant apologists for hundreds of years **
Oh, really???
The article is about a Baptist who has other opinions.
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Odd, He does not mention His mom in the technical details.
This anti-protestant stuff being posted ad naseum on FR is annoying
And Mary’s last words in the Bible are:
“Do whatever he tells you.”
She left everything in Christ’s hands. (Smart mother, eh?)
A person is saved by God through Christ and Christ alone. This is why its called Christianity.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.