Hebrew Scriptures And Deuterocanonicals

Spero News ^ | 8/19/06 | Adrian

[bdeaner]

What is the Hebrew canon and are the deuterocanonicals/apocrypha a part of it?

During Jesus' time, the Jews, as a whole, did not officially have a list of inspired books or canon. For example, the Sadducees accepted only the Pentateuch as Scriptures while the Pharisees accepted prophetic writings as well as other wisdom books, like Job and Proverbs as inspired.

Which canon of Scriptures was known to Jesus, His followers and the first Christians? The answer is that they knew both Palestinian Canon and the Greek Septuagint translation. Greek-speaking Jews also lived in Palestine and were known as Hellenists (Acts 6:1).

However all New Testament writers mostly used Septuagint whenever they quoted from Old Testament. It is not a matter of convenience (even though both used Greek), because at few places in the New Testament, the inspired authors still quoted from the Hebrew text. The Septuagint has textual differences compared to Palestinian canon. A good example is the famous prophecy about Jesus' virgin birth in Isaiah 7:14 quoted in Matthew 1:23. The Palestinian canon does not say "virgin" but "young woman" while the Septuagint does say "virgin" (note that both Hebrew and Greek have different words for virgin and young woman). Countless other examples abound throughout the New Testament. Given that the entire New Testament was written in Greek, it is perhaps certain that the Alexandrian canon as reflected in the Greek Septuagint was also used by the Catholic Church right from the beginning as was the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament.

The Septuagint version used by the early Christians (presumably inspired by the Holy Spirit on this matter) was the acknowledged translation for all the "Jews of the Dispersion" in Asia, as well as in Egypt, and it was used not only by Christ, His Apostles and Evangelists but by Jews and Gentiles and Christians in the early days of Christianity. It is from this list of 46 books that Christ and the New Testament writers and speakers quote when referring to the Old Testament. Of the 350 quotations of the Old Testament found in the New Testament, 300 are taken directly from the Greek Septuagint Bible.

The Palestinian canon of the Old Testament (followed by modern Protestants) which was fixed and decided by the Pharisees at the end of the first century in the Council of Janveh, was in part to suppress the growing heresy called Christianity. With the virtual disappearance of the priestly class with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, the Pharisees became champions of Judaism. In order to combat the spreading Christian cult, the Pharisee rabbis met at the city of Jamnia or Javneh in A.D. 90 to determine which books were truly the Word of God. They pronounced many books, including the Gospels and the New Testament Letters, to be heretical. Thus, the Palestinian Jews have 39 books in the Old Testament, while the Alexandrian Jews and the Jews of Dispersion hold that 46 books are inspired, following the canon stated in the Greek Septuagint.

This canon (which Protestants have adopted) also excluded seven books (Baruch, Sirach, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, and the Wisdom of Solomon, plus portions of Esther and Daniel) that (Greek-speaking Christians accepted) were found in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament used by Jews of the Dispersion, especially in Egypt). The reason was the widespread use of the Septuagint by the Christians. So should we follow the Pharisees' definition of inspired books (Old Testament), as the Protestants do today? We should know better than to listen to the Pharisees because in Matt 15.13-15.14, Jesus called the Pharisees "blind men leading blind men". It is indeed sad that the group of Pharisaic Jews which met at Javneh became the dominant group for later Jewish history, and that is why today most Jews accept the canon of Javneh. But like what Jesus said (Matt 15.14), "If a blind man leads another, both will fall into a pit".

Before 393 A. D. there were 3 classes of sacred writings being read in the Churches. First, there were the genuine writings accepted universally by the Christian Church which hailed this first group of writings as actually written by the Apostles or on the same Apostolic authority. The second class of sacred writings, which were being used by the Churches, was the disputed class. In some places they were accepted as genuine Scripture and in other places they were not so accepted. In this second class, or disputed list, were James, Jude, the second Epistle of St Peter, the second and third Epistle of St John, the Epistle to the Hebrews, and the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse). Then there was a third class of writings spread about, which was never accepted by any of the Churches as genuine Scripture, books which contained all sorts of fanciful stories or fables of the early life of Our Lord. The usage of certain Pauline letters was also prevalent in certain early Christian churches, but a universal and standard list of inspired books was never promulgated before the Council of Hippo in 393. It is ironic that Protestants reject the inclusion of the Old Testament deuterocanonicals at councils such as Hippo (393) and Carthage (397), because these are the very same early Church councils that defined the current canon of the New Testament. Prior to the councils, there was a wide range of disagreement over exactly what books belonged in the New Testament. Certain books, such as the gospels, acts, and most of the epistles of Paul had long been agreed upon. However a number of the books of the New Testament, most notably Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, and Revelation remained hotly disputed until the canon was settled. They are, in effect, "New Testament "deuterocanonicals."

Council of Laodicea (c. 360)
A local council of the church in union with Rome produced a list of books of the Bible similar to the Council of Trent's canon. This was one of the Church's earliest decisions on a canon.

Council of Rome (382)
Local church council under the authority of Pope Damasus, (366-384) gave a complete list of canonical books of the OT and NT which is identical with the list later approved by the Council of Trent.

Council of Hippo (393)
Local North African Church council in union with and under the authority of the Bishop of Rome approved a list of OT and NT canon (same list as that later approved by the Council of Trent)

Council of Carthage (397)
Local North African Church council in union with and under the authority of the Bishop of Rome approved a list of OT and NT canon (same list as that later approved by the Council of Trent)

Council of Carthage (419)
Local North African Church council in union with and under the authority of the Bishop of Rome approved a list of OT and NT canon (same as later approved by the Council of Trent)

Council of Florence, an ecumenical council (1441)
Complete list of OT and NT canon was drawn up; this list later adopted by the Fathers of the Council of Trent

Resources

The Canonization of Scripture

[bdeaner]

"The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Old Testament, which was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic. Biblical scholars regard the Septuagint as important because some of the earliest texts of the Old Testament were written in Greek and because the New Testament writers quote from the Septuagint frequently." -- Towers Online, Publication of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, April 28, 2008
http://www.towersonline.net/story.php?grp=news&id=516

"There are some who argue that Paul did not read Hebrew, but everyone acknowledges that he knew Greek! He quotes the Septuagint everywhere! Surely there should be more study of the Greek Jewish Scriptures." (p. x)
-- Tim McCaley, The Use of the Septuagint in New Testament Research (2003, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.).

In "Old Testament Versions, Ancient," Greenspoon wrote: "The Septuaginst broadly defined is a constant source of OT citations in the NT" (p. 753).

Swete says, "The LXX is the principal source for which the writers of the NT derive their OT quotations...The language of the Septuagint...is part and parcel of the Hellenistic Greek of the period...and hence is an important body of evidence for studying the Greek of the NT." (Swete, An Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek, p. 392).

In the article "Septuagint/Greek Old Testaement," Porter writes: "The language of the Septuaginst...is part and parcel of the Hellenistic Greek of the period...and hence is an important body of evidence for studying the Greek of the OT." (p. 1104).

"The early extant account of the original Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible is found in the Letter of Aristeas (or Pseudo-Aristeas). This document pruports to be a lengthy, personal letter from a man named Aristeas to his "brother" (of friend) Philocrates. It describes, among other things, how the Jewish Torah was first translated from Hebrew into Greek for the great library of the Egyptian king Ptoley Philadelphus (285-247 B.C.E.) in Alexandra."
-- Karen H. Jobes & Moises Silva (2005), Invitation to the Septuagint (Baker Academic), p. 33.

THE SEPTUAGINT (VIDEO)

Text accompanying video:
Historical evidence that the Septuagint was know the Greek speaking Jews before the birth, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus. And it was known to Greek Speaking Jews before the Council of Javneh in AD 90 decided the Canon for the Hebrew Canon. It is also known to the Ethiopian Jews who accept it as canon today. The Catholic Church did not add to the Bible; in fact the Septuagint was Sacred among the Greek Speaking Jews and the Ethiopian Jews.

The books within it are known in other Ancient text and writings as mentioned in the video. All Seven of the deuterocanonical books rejected when the Hebrew Bible was decided are found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Some scholars thought the LXX was unique to the Alexandrian Greek-Jewish people, but fragments of all of them have been found in Hebrew and or Aramaic among the Dead Sea Scrolls. This means they had a wide and multi-lingual circulation among the Jewish people.

There are people who claim that the Council of Javneh never happened. But, these Jewish Encyclopedia's say differently. BR> (The Encyclopedia of Judaism, vol 15 page 117)" says that the limit of the third part (Writings) was not finalized until mid of second century. In addition, the Hebrew Canon was also not accepted by Ethiopian Jews who accept Septuagint to this day "

(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 6, p. 1146)"There is no evidence that the Rabbis at the council of Javneh (90A.D.), had the legitimate authority to determine scripture for the Jewish religion"

(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 6, p. 1147)."The group of Jews which met at Javneh became the dominant group for later Jewish history, and today most Jews accept the canon of Javneh. However, some Jews, such as those from Ethiopia, follow a different canon which is identical to the Catholic Old Testament and includes the seven Deuterocanonical books."

(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 6, p. 1148)."Protestantism derives its Old Testament Canon from the European Jews who followed the Canon of the council of Jamnia or Javneh (90 CE.)."

[FourtySeven]

Bookmark Bump

[FourtySeven]

Key phrases:

It is also known to the Ethiopian Jews who accept it as canon today.

The Catholic Church did not add to the Bible; in fact the Septuagint was Sacred among the Greek Speaking Jews and the Ethiopian Jews.

All Seven of the deuterocanonical books rejected when the Hebrew Bible was decided are found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 6, p. 1148)."Protestantism derives its Old Testament Canon from the European Jews who followed the Canon of the council of Jamnia or Javneh (90 CE.)."

I think the salient point to remember in this kind of discussion is the following fact which, while it may seem simple, was not obvious to me until I heard it pointed out on EWTN:

As Christians, we are to follow Christ, and the ones who knew Him. Thus, we are to imitate not only Christ, but also those who followed Him. It's clear (I believe, from writings such as this and others) from history that the Apostles and their followers used the Septuagint.

Thus, the point that, "We should do what 1st century Jews did; we should follow their canon", is not correct. We are "Christians", and thus we don't do what Jews did; we do what Christ and His Apostles/disciples did.

And it's clear they used the LXX.

[count-your-change]

Another attempt to pass off the Apocrypha as part of inspired Scripture. Still doesn’t get past the cut.

[bdeaner]

Show, don’t tell. If you have no evidence to refute the article, one must take your claims as empty words.

[Petronski]

Interesting that protestants insist on calling seven books of Scripture “apocrypha,” which means “hidden (things).”

Just what is there that you’re trying to hide?

[bdeaner]

Interesting that protestants insist on calling seven books of Scripture “apocrypha,” which means “hidden (things).”

Just what is there that you’re trying to hide?

YES, and of course we know what the Scriptures have to say about the act of HIDING things, or keeping things in secret:

Genesis 3:10 -- He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself."

Proverbs 28:13 -- He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion

Job 31:33 -- "Have I covered my transgressions like Adam, By hiding my iniquity in my bosom,

Job 24:13,15,17 -- "There are those who rebel against the light, who do not know its ways or stay in its paths... The eye of the adulterer watches for dusk; he thinks, 'No eye will see me,' and he keeps his face concealed... For all of them, deep darkness is their morning; they make friends with the terrors of darkness."

Isa 29:15-16 -- Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the Lord, who do their work in darkness and think, "Who sees us? Who will know?" You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay!... Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing?"

Isa 28:15 -- You boast, "... for we have made a lie our refuge, and falsehood our hiding place."

Ps 139:7,11-12 -- Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me..." the night will shine like day....

Jer 23:24 -- "Can anyone hide in the secret places so that I cannot see him?" declares the Lord. "Do I not fill heaven and earth?" declares the Lord.

Jer 16:17 -- "My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from me, nor is their sin concealed from my eyes."

[count-your-change]

We need only look to the books like 2 Maccabees. In the beginning of chapter two Jeremiah is said to have been “warned by God” and so took the tabernacle and ark into the mountain where he found a cave and hid both items there.

Problem for this tale is the Temple had replaced the tabernacle hundreds years earlier and the ark was there.

Jeremiah was under the Mosiac Law and had no authority to move the ark anywhere, a task that only the Levites had performed.

Bel and Dragon: The Illustrated Bible Dictionary (vol. 1, pg 760, calls it a “pious legendary embroidery”.

Maybe Baruch will do better as in chapter one verses one and two Baruch is said to write from Babylon but Jeremiah 42:6,7 says Baruch and Jeremiah went to Egypt and therefore there is no evidence Baruch was ever in Babylon.

Neither Jesus nor any Bible writer quote from the Apocrypha.

I could go on to the false teachings of the Apocrypha too but the obvious errors I pointed out should be enough to show that the Apocrypha is not and never was part of the Inspired Canon.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

****I could go on to the false teachings of the Apocrypha too but the obvious errors I pointed out should be enough to show that the Apocrypha is not and never was part of the Inspired Canon. ****

You mean the SPARTANS were not really descendents of Abaraham as is mentioned in the Apocrypha? Even Josephus says they were! ;-)

[count-your-change]

The earliest discussions of the Bible canon (second and early third century) show that the apocryphal writings were not accepted as part of “all scripture” and even Jerome rejected these extra-Biblical writings as part of the Canon.

Maybe that’s what’s being hid from you by someone since you seem not to know it (or are you “hiding your light under a basket’)?

[Petronski]

The earliest discussions of the Bible canon (second and early third century) show that the apocryphal writings were not accepted as part of “all scripture”...

That is your take on the matter.

...even Jerome rejected these extra-Biblical writings as part of the Canon.

St. Jerome's translation of the Vulgate includes all 73 books.

[fatboy]

Petronski,

Tell us everything you know about Jerome and his inclusion of the apocrypha in the Vulgate.

[bdeaner]

SCRIPTURE REFERENCING THE DEUTEROCANONICAL BOOKS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.

1 Cor. 2:16 - Paul's question, "who has known the mind of the Lord?" references Wisdom 9:13.

1 Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26 - warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30.

1 Cor. 8:5-6 - Paul acknowledging many "gods" but one Lord follows Wis. 13:3.

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul's description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to Wisdom 19:7.

1 Cor. 10:20 - what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to Baruch 4:7.

1 Cor. 15:29 - if no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows 2 Macc. 12:43-45.

Eph. 1:17 - Paul's prayer for a "spirit of wisdom" follows the prayer for the spirit of wisdom in Wisdom 7:7.

Eph. 6:14 - Paul describing the breastplate of righteousness is the same as Wis. 5:18. See also Isaiah 59:17 and 1 Thess. 5:8.

Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.

1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul's description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.

2 Tim. 4:8 - Paul's description of a crown of righteousness is similar to Wisdom 5:16.

Heb. 4:12 - Paul's description of God's word as a sword is similar to Wisdom 18:15.

Heb. 11:5 - Enoch being taken up is also referenced in Wis 4:10 and Sir 44:16. See also 2 Kings 2:1-13 & Sir 48:9 regarding Elijah.

Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Heb. 12:12 - the description "drooping hands" and "weak knees" comes from Sirach 25:23.

James 1:19 - let every man be quick to hear and slow to respond follows Sirach 5:11.

James 2:23 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness follows 1 Macc. 2:52 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

James 3:13 - James' instruction to perform works in meekness follows Sirach 3:17.

James 5:3 - describing silver which rusts and laying up treasure follows Sirach 29:10-11.

James 5:6 - condemning and killing the "righteous man" follows Wisdom 2:10-20.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter teaches about testing faith by purgatorial fire as described in Wisdom 3:5-6 and Sirach 2:5.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds.

2 Peter 2:7 - God's rescue of a righteous man (Lot) is also described in Wisdom 10:6.

Rev. 1:4 – the seven spirits who are before his throne is taken from Tobit 12:15 – Raphael is one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints before the Holy One.

Rev. 1:18; Matt. 16:18 - power of life over death and gates of Hades follows Wis. 16:13.

Rev. 2:12 - reference to the two-edged sword is similar to the description of God's Word in Wisdom 18:16.

Rev. 5:7 - God is described as seated on His throne, and this is the same description used in Sirach 1:8.

Rev. 8:3-4 - prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows Tobit 12:12,15.

Rev. 8:7 - raining of hail and fire to the earth follows Wisdom 16:22 and Sirach 39:29.

Rev. 9:3 - raining of locusts on the earth follows Wisdom 16:9.

Rev. 11:19 - the vision of the ark of the covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in 2 Macc. 2:7.

Rev. 17:14 - description of God as King of kings follows 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 19:1 - the cry "Hallelujah" at the coming of the new Jerusalem follows Tobit 13:18.

Rev. 19:11 - the description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows 2 Macc. 3:25; 11:8.

Rev. 19:16 - description of our Lord as King of kings is taken from 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 21:19 - the description of the new Jerusalem with precious stones is prophesied in Tobit 13:17.

Exodus 23:7 - do not slay the innocent and righteous - Dan. 13:53 - do not put to death an innocent and righteous person.

1 Sam. 28:7-20 – the intercessory mediation of deceased Samuel for Saul follows Sirach 46:20.

2 Kings 2:1-13 – Elijah being taken up into heaven follows Sirach 48:9.

2 Tim. 3:16 - the inspired Scripture that Paul was referring to included the deuterocanonical texts that the Protestants removed. The books Baruch, Tobit, Maccabees, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom and parts of Daniel and Esther were all included in the Septuagint that Jesus and the apostles used.

Sirach and 2 Maccabees – some Protestants argue these books are not inspired because the writers express uncertainty about their abilities. But sacred writers are often humble about their divinely inspired writings. See, for example, 1 Cor. 7:40 – Paul says he “thinks” that he has the Spirit of God.

The Protestants attempt to defend their rejection of the deuterocanonicals on the ground that the early Jews rejected them. However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called “Jamnia” in 90 - 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testatment canon. Thus, Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament.

[Petronski]

How much is the tuition at this school, professor?

I’m already assigned essay questions and I don’t even remember applying for admission.

[Mr. Lucky]

But in all candor, you might note that St. Jeorme’s translation separated the 66 books which he considered canonical from the 6 books which he considered “ecclesiastical”.

[Petronski]

See, the verb “rejected” implies he excluded them, which is not the case.

[fatboy]

Petronski,

Allow me to translate your answer, greek for “empty box”.

[Petronski]

I don't answer to you. Do you think you will just order me to jump and I'll say "Yes massah, how high massah?"

LOL

Since the subject is Greek, I suggest you investigate another Greek word: hubris.

[Petronski]

Bel and Dragon: The Illustrated Bible Dictionary

Well, with towering authorities like that...

[bdeaner]

Well, with towering authorities like that...

LOL!!!