Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Diego1618

Diego1618:

Christ in no sense can be seen as having been born again [John 3:16], which if you go back to John 3:5 is seen as pointing to Christian baptism, i.e. “born of water and spirt” (c.f. John 3:5). The baptism of Jesus is described in all 4 Gospels, each with there own theological perspective and as Pope Benedict notes in Jesus of Nazareth (p.22), all 4 note that CHrist came up from the water and heaven was torn open and the spirit came down upon him. 3 points follow, heaven opening shows Christ communion with his Father [Trinitarian image] and then the sprit coming down we here the Father saying this is my beloved son, etc. indicating who Christ is more than what he is doing. For example, in St. John’s Gospel (c.f. John 1 :29-34), we see John the Baptist identifying CHrist as the “Lamb of God” at Christ’s baptism. As Pope Benedict notes, this is an encounter with the Holy Trinity.

Now, I would encourage you to view Christ as a Divine Person, who was never without a Divine Nature, but through the incarnation, took our human nature in its fullness,but without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Thus, in this sense Christ being baptized points to our Lord identifying himself with humanity and have fallen nature, but hope for God’s Grace. Again, as Pope Benedict notes in Jesus of Nazareth (p. 17), the signficance of Christ’s Baptism could not fully emerge until the Cross and Resurrection and as the Pope points out on p. 18, Christ’s baptism is an acceptance of death for humanity’s sins and the voice of God the Father stating “this is my beloved son over the baptismal waters of the Jordan river is an anticipatory reference to the Resurrection, which as the Pope further notes, is why Jesus uses the word “Baptism” to refer to his death (c.f. Mark 10:38; Luke 12:50).

So to summarize, Catholic doctrine sees through Baptism, we die to old and rise to new life [i.e Death and Resurrection], and thus receive God’s grace and thus have communion with the Most Holy Trinity.

Regards


34 posted on 06/07/2009 3:53:09 PM PDT by CTrent1564
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies ]


To: CTrent1564; All

The Holy Spirit, Gift of God's Love

St. Augustine

There is no gift of God more excellent than this. It alone distinguishes the sons of the eternal kingdom and the sons of eternal perdition. Other gifts, too, are given by the Holy Spirit; but without love they profit nothing. Unless, therefore, the Holy Spirit is so far imparted to each, as to make him one who loves God and his neighbor, he is not removed from the left hand to the right. Nor is the Spirit specially called the Gift, unless on account of love. And he who has not this love, "though he speak with the tongues of men and angels, is sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal; and though he have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and though he have all faith, so that he can remove mountains, he is nothing; and though he bestow all his goods to feed the poor, and though he give his body to be burned, it profiteth him nothing."

How great a good, then, is that without which goods so great bring no one to eternal life! But love or charity itself,--for they are two names for one thing,--if he have it that does not speak with tongues, nor has the gift of prophecy, nor knows all mysteries and all knowledge, nor gives all his goods to the poor, either because he has none to give or because some necessity hinders, nor delivers his body to be burned, if no trial of such a suffering overtakes him, brings that man to the kingdom, so that faith itself is only rendered profitable by love, since faith without love can indeed exist, but cannot profit. And therefore also the Apostle Paul says, "In Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith that worketh by love:" so distinguishing it from that faith by which even "the devils believe and tremble." Love, therefore, which is of God and is God, is specially the Holy Spirit, by whom the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, by which love the whole Trinity dwells in us. And therefore most rightly is the Holy Spirit, although He is God, called also the gift of God. And by that gift what else can properly be understood except love, which brings to God, and without which any other gift of God whatsoever does not bring to God? . . .

Wherefore, if Holy Scripture proclaims that God is love, and that love is of God, and works this in us that we abide in God and He in us, and that hereby we know this, because He has given us of His Spirit, then the Spirit Himself is God, who is love. Next, if there be among the gifts of God none greater than love, and there is no greater gift of God than the Holy Spirit, what follows more naturally than that He is Himself love, who is called both God and of God? And if the love by which the Father loves the Son, and the Son loves the Father, ineffably demonstrates the communion of both, what is more suitable than that He should be specially called love, who is the Spirit common to both? For this is the sounder thing both to believe and to understand, that the Holy Spirit is not alone love in that Trinity, yet is not specially called love to no purpose.


On the Trinity XV.18.32, 19.37.

Electronic text (c) Copyright 1997 EWTN.


35 posted on 06/07/2009 4:47:03 PM PDT by Salvation († With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies ]

To: CTrent1564
[John 3:5-13] 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Were you born of flesh?

Have you changed into a spirit being?

Do you remember how the Lord was able to stand before the disciples, suddenly materializing inside a stone building, behind locked doors? [John 20:19][Luke 24:36]

He had been "Born again"....resurrecting as a spirit. We will also..... at our resurrection....be born of the spirit [I Corinthians 15:50-52]. Notice again what He says to Nicodemus [John 3:3-8] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: "so is every one that is born of the Spirit".

Our Lord was telling Nicodemus about a total change he would experience upon becoming "born again".....from flesh to spirit at the resurrection.

[1 Peter 1:3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

[1 Peter 1:21-23] Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

[1 John 3:9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do baptized, fleshly people sin? Yes, unfortunately, they still do.....as they have only been begotten of the spirit, not yet born of the spirit....born again of incorruptible seed.

36 posted on 06/07/2009 6:33:55 PM PDT by Diego1618 (Put "Ron" on the rock!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson