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To: Eagle Eye
It really does not get any clearer than John 1:1. How exactly would you rationalize John's Gospel away? The entire Gospel reads as a theological essay on why Jesus = God.

Why then are the non-Trinitarians the fringe element of Christianity?

And really, you quote Col 1:15? Do you care to read the REST of that passage?

16 For ​by Him all things were created, ​both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether ​thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17 He ​is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

18 He is also ​head of the body, the church; and He is ​the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.


What sect do you belong to btw?
22 posted on 06/03/2009 9:21:35 AM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: Alex Murphy; Star Traveler; Ezekiel; Diego1618

Sorry, I too forgot to keep the rest of you in the ping list.


23 posted on 06/03/2009 9:29:10 AM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: rom
It really does not get any clearer than John 1:1. How exactly would you rationalize John's Gospel away? The entire Gospel reads as a theological essay on why Jesus = God.

No...what you claim that verse says CLEARLY CONTRADICTS what the Bible says...

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

CLEARLY the Bible calls Jesus a man. Clearly it differentiates between God and men, of whom Jesus was one.

Clearly.

Next?

27 posted on 06/03/2009 10:12:44 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (When they came for GM I did nothing because I was not a car dealer....)
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To: rom; Eagle Eye; Ezekiel
Why then are the non-Trinitarians the fringe element of Christianity?

For the same reason the Roman Catholics and Protestants are the Mainstream! [Matthew 24:4-5] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

The early Church preached not one word about a Trinity of three eternal personages. The Old scriptures were all based upon the oneness of the Godhead. After the Apostles died the post Apostolic age brought Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp and Hermas. Not one word about a so called Trinity was offered in the writings of these folks.

After the Greek Apologists entered the scene is when this pagan concept of a Trinity begins to emerge (AD 130/180). The reason for this was the determination of the meaning of the Greek word "Logos". In Greek philosophy, prior to the first Century, the concept of a "Logos" was taught and it meant a subservient divine entity to God. This concept is not what Trinitarians of today believe, but that's what the Greeks who entered Christianity in the mid second century believed and taught. This is where the first roots of the Trinity emerge and you can see this by the modification of baptismal rites where The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are invoked.....rather then the Biblical formula we find in [Acts 2:38][8:16][10:48]and [19:5].

These were the main points described in the Greek philosophy of that time (mid second century).

1. The Logos was a second divine person

2. The Logos was begotten before the creation.

3. The Logos was the Son of God.

4. A baptismal formula should now mention three entities, because.........

5. The Holy Spirit somehow links The Father to The Son.

They were trying to reconcile the "Godhead" plurality issue in Genesis and the "Trinity" doctrine had not yet been invented by the Catholics. The next age of the church began about AD 175 and went on to Nicaea in AD 325.

Many commentators of this age still referred to the oneness doctrine held by most believers but the popularity of the Trinity began to gain foothold. Tertullian was the first Church Father to refer to a Trinity about the year 200. He originally was a Binatarian but had picked from the Montanists that the "Paraclete" was something more than what he had originally thought. He had long thought it was just a "Thing" but as he grew older he began thinking it was a third eternal person in the Godhead.

Origen (185/254 AD) believed souls preexisted, as did the Greeks of that day. He also believed that Satan would eventually be forgiven and saved. In addition he believed that Jesus was the first born of The Father and The Holy Spirit linked these two together.

During this age most writers indicated that The Son was still inferior to The Father but the Trinity concept eventually won out (Three co equal Eternal People) during the fourth century, mainly because of the efforts of Athanasius' (his view was prominent at Nicaea) and became official Church dogma at the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD.

In order to accept the Trinity Doctrine one must believe what the Catholic Church teaches about it.....as that is where it originated in its present form. They declare that the Apostles did not have all the truths about God and that the Church formulated doctrines after the scriptures were canonized. These things are now to be considered as important as the Biblical truths we find in scripture. Since the Trinity is not explicitly taught in scripture, but formulated later on.....it nevertheless must be considered true because the Church.....says its true!

Bottom line: To support the idea of a three in one Godhead you must use terms not found in the Bible; Rely on false scripture based upon twisted interpretations that contradict extremely clear scriptures; And a convoluted theory must be created that no one really understands, that forces its adherents to declare it a mystery!

50 posted on 06/03/2009 3:36:41 PM PDT by Diego1618 (Put "Ron" on the rock!)
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