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To: Star Traveler
1)Posting lengthy quotes from the "new testament" does not, in and of itself, mean anything. If the "new testament" is false you can quote it till doomsday and it won't make it true. As I said, I love you Fundamentalist Protestants, but you're no different from existentialists when it comes to what you believe.

2)No one can just "recognize" inspiration. Only the Holy Torah was written directly by G-d Himself and then dictated to Moses letter-for-letter and never had to canonized by a duly constituted authority. All the rest of Scripture other than the Torah is mediated through prophets or soferim (scribes) and couldn't be accepted just because someone made a claim about them. It took the 'Anshei HaKenesset HaGedolah to approve of them before they could be accepted as Scripture.

3)Most Jews rejected J*sus' claims, so you're picking the chr*stian faction over the Jews who practiced authentic, Torah True Judaism is merely an expression of your own preconceptions.

Finally, a further defense of authentic Tradition is that the First Torah was not cranked out of a Thomas Nelson printing press but written by Moses' hand at G-d's dictation. This scroll, in order to be faithfully reproduced through the ages, must be written according to a body of very strict rules which are not recorded in the Written Torah in order to assure its authenticity. No Authentic Oral Tradition, no Kosher Torah Scrolls. And the Kosher Torah Scroll, not any printed Bible, is the Word of G-d in its purest and most perfect form.

One reason Protestantism rejects Tradition (aside from the hypocrisy of the Catholics) is that it has only existed during the time of the printing press. This leads to a subconscious belief that no human hand has ever had to physically write and no (unwritten) rules exist to assure the copies are authentic. That's an excuse the Qara'im don't have.

72 posted on 05/24/2009 3:52:28 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Bachodesh hashelishi letze't Benei-Yisra'el me'Eretz Mitzrayim; bayom hazeh ba'u Midbar Sinai.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

If Peter, James, Paul and the other Apostles, who were Jews knew what happened, testified to it, and announced to the world that Jesus had risen from the dead and was at the right hand of the Father in Heaven — and many other Jews in Jerusalem who knew those things, too, joined them in their belief and faith in Jesus as the Messiah of Israel — then I’ll go along with their testimony.

I don’t see their testimony refuted by those who were there with the Apostles, living in the same place at the same time. It’s clear that no one at that time could refute that testimony and that’s why the Christian Church grew dramatically at that time.

And there has been nothing to refute it in the intervening time. There have been doubters and naysayers who may refuse to believe it, but that’s their choice to refuse to believe it.

However, no one could present any evidence at that time, when it was directly available to them (i.e., *actually being there* and getting witnesses to testify to the contrary of those facts). And so, if no one could do it at that time when everyone was alive and able to testify — certainly no one in the 21st Century is going to be able to testify convincingly... LOL...

You’ll notice that they have over 500 witnesses to Jesus being alive and taken up into Heaven...

1 Corinthians 15

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.

6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.

Acts 1

1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen,

3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;

5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,

11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

That sounds like a mighty large number of witnesses, that if they were to be taken into court to testify to those things (all of them) we would have an *absolutely certain* decision that Jesus was indeed the Messiah of Israel, seen alive by all those people, after having been crucified, and also seen by those people actually being taken up into Heaven to be at the right hand of God, until He returns to earth again, to set up the Kingdom here...

I think I’ll take their testimony as more accurate than any one else’s “supposed” and “modern day” testimony... :-)


74 posted on 05/24/2009 4:31:13 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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